Thread: Some horn findings on some boxs I built

I built a double 15 with a eaw la 325 waveguide horn a while back, along with faital pro fx 560 15's. I found the eaw waveguide to be one great sounding horn when listening to it. This is compared to my jbl 4733's.
So for the heck of it I wanted to try something else. Built the same Identical box but used a B+C me 90 and a Radian745neopb. Right off the bat it sounded much better then a Jbl horn, but something wasn't right. When comparing the B+C and raidian to the eaw waveguide my new experiment sounded bright in places, some comb filtering was going on, it just seemed a little harsh. So what was the culprit here?
I then bought a faital pro lth142 horn, its not a constant directivity horn but designed like the eaw wave guide. No harsh angles all smothe, eliptical? I bolted the Raidian driver to the faital horn and installed it in my box. I used this setup last night and problem solved! Even coverage, no harshness, no combing.
So I guess what I'm getting at is if your looking into building some box's, look away from the CD horns.

FaitalPRO - Professional Loudspeakers Made in Italy


Radian - 745NEOPB

B&C SPEAKERS

EAW: LA325

I don't have a pic of the Faital horns

As you can see in the second pic with the me 90's I mounted the horns to a seperate plate, so I could unscrew this piece and change horns if need be.

Interesting project. How do you power/crossover? Are you using measurements or just by ear?

It's called "constant directivity horn EQ" and usually requires a major boost up high (10dB or more). Yes, it's going to sound funny without it.

Originally Posted by john lutz

Interesting project. How do you power/crossover? Are you using measurements or just by ear?

Power is Bi amped. Crest 9200 on the 15's in stereo, 8200 on the horns in stereo. 4 double 18's on the bottom, each powered by a crest 8200 bridged.

I use a drive rack pa, stereo 3 way. I have used the rta setup in the drive rack, I have run pink noise through them and played around that way. Most of the time I go by ear.

I took a chance on this project, used the eminence designer for both the top box's and subs. I got lucky, it sounds great.

I want 4 of the same box's in the end, I will be using the eaw waveguides all the way around, only reason is the wider coverage, 90 degree on the eaw, 60 on the faital.

Originally Posted by Silas Pradetto

It's called "constant directivity horn EQ" and usually requires a major boost up high (10dB or more). Yes, it's going to sound funny without it.

Actually the problem with the CD horns that I hear are they are grainy, have comb filtering and hot freq's below 10k, 2 to 4k is where I here a small issue, then at around 7 k'ish they are really hot, just not smooth like the eaw or faital.

Another new Faital fan here. So Alan - have you tried the 1000 watt neo Faital 18's in your subs yet?

Originally Posted by Alan Sledzieski

Actually the problem with the CD horns that I hear are they are grainy, have comb filtering and hot freq's below 10k, 2 to 4k is where I here a small issue, then at around 7 k'ish they are really hot, just not smooth like the eaw or faital.

It's not uncommon to have to cut a little 2-4k on a CD horn, and maybe a few other frequencies. There is no "magic bullet" in terms of what needs to be boosted or cut on a particular horn, but like Silas said, CD horns have a pretty general guideline as to how they need to be EQ'd or they can sound harsh. Don't use the "auto-RTA" function on the Driverack PA if that's what you are using.

Also, why not use the 60 degree Faital horn on the new boxes? If you are planning on doing 4, at least the 60 degree would not overlap as bad if you run 2/ side, and even 1/ side 60 degrees of coverage is generally fairly usable. Plus you also have the advantage of actually being able to obtain the Faital horn, which doesn't seem to be the case with the EAW.

Originally Posted by Gene Hardage

Another new Faital fan here. So Alan - have you tried the 1000 watt neo Faital 18's in your subs yet?

Did one better. I have the 4 subs loaded with these.

Faital Pro 18XL1500 18" High Power Subwoofer Speakers - Faital Pro 18XL1500 18" for ported bass reflex subwoofer speaker cabinets. Lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 18XL1500 3000 watt high efficiency woofer with a high 98dB SPL for all high p

I'd put this box I built up against any front loaded ported box from manufactures of Eaw and down. Heres a pic of them when I was doing some out door tuning one day,



New grills for the subs to put on this winter

Originally Posted by Tom Manchester

It's not uncommon to have to cut a little 2-4k on a CD horn, and maybe a few other frequencies. There is no "magic bullet" in terms of what needs to be boosted or cut on a particular horn, but like Silas said, CD horns have a pretty general guideline as to how they need to be EQ'd or they can sound harsh. Don't use the "auto-RTA" function on the Driverack PA if that's what you are using.

Also, why not use the 60 degree Faital horn on the new boxes? If you are planning on doing 4, at least the 60 degree would not overlap as bad if you run 2/ side, and even 1/ side 60 degrees of coverage is generally fairly usable. Plus you also have the advantage of actually being able to obtain the Faital horn, which doesn't seem to be the case with the EAW.

I'm sure if someone actually spent the time to measure and build good tunings with the 'bad' Faital horn, it would sound just as good or better than the EAW. It really just comes down to having the ears and the tools to make it happen.

PS Tom - I built tunings from scratch for the T2 boxes Graham got, they sound great. I only spent a half hour on it, but I was quite impressed with that DH1A.

Originally Posted by Alan Sledzieski

Did one better. I have the 4 subs loaded with these.

Faital Pro 18XL1500 18" High Power Subwoofer Speakers - Faital Pro 18XL1500 18" for ported bass reflex subwoofer speaker cabinets. Lightweight neodymium magnet - Faital Pro 18XL1500 3000 watt high efficiency woofer with a high 98dB SPL for all high p

I'd put this box I built up against any front loaded ported box from manufactures of Eaw and down. Heres a pic of them when I was doing some out door tuning one day,



New grills for the subs to put on this winter

Alan, rather than use expanded steel that looks.... interesting....why not use actual perforated steel? It is not hard to source, but you probably won't find it locally.

Originally Posted by Tom Manchester

It's not uncommon to have to cut a little 2-4k on a CD horn, and maybe a few other frequencies. There is no "magic bullet" in terms of what needs to be boosted or cut on a particular horn, but like Silas said, CD horns have a pretty general guideline as to how they need to be EQ'd or they can sound harsh. Don't use the "auto-RTA" function on the Driverack PA if that's what you are using.

Also, why not use the 60 degree Faital horn on the new boxes? If you are planning on doing 4, at least the 60 degree would not overlap as bad if you run 2/ side, and even 1/ side 60 degrees of coverage is generally fairly usable. Plus you also have the advantage of actually being able to obtain the Faital horn, which doesn't seem to be the case with the EAW.

Tom,

99% of the time I will be going with just a pair ( 1 aside)of the box's on top. Just want a second pair for that one day a year I do a wide stage and need the coverage. Plus if I blow something up I have a spare set in the trailer, lol.

Even after EQ'ing the B+C horns, or Jbls, when I walk across the front, theres all kinds of sound changes going on, things get quieter and things get louder with the cd horns. The waveguides or Faitas stay the same. Just seems like sound from everywhere. Kinda like they are very open, not beamy like the cd's

Silas,

The faital horn is not bad, sounds great, just doesn't have the coverage up close on the dance floor like the eaw.

As far as expanded metal, it works fine, lot of open area on them. I bought a sheet 4x8 and 40 feet of 18 guage 1'' square tube and made them up. Steel was $57

Then I coat them with 2 coats of bed liner, Rustoleum, and 1 coat of paint. This gets rid of any ringing and the paint makes them smooth to the touch.

Originally Posted by Alan Sledzieski

Silas,

The faital horn is not bad, sounds great, just doesn't have the coverage up close on the dance floor like the eaw.

As far as expanded metal, it works fine, lot of open area on them. I bought a sheet 4x8 and 40 feet of 18 guage 1'' square tub and made them up. Steel was $57

Then I coat them with 2 coats of bed liner, Rustoleum, and 1 coat of paint. This gets rid of any ringing and the paint makes them smooth to the touch.

Sounds like a plan. I have yet to find a way to easily mount grilles that keeps them from ringing and yet keeps them light. All the designs that I like require all kinds of fancy machining, custom punching, or at least a brake to shape the steel. I prefer flat grilles, but they never seem strong enough.

Your design seems like it works well, it's probably pretty heavy though.

Do you cloth or foam the backs?

Heres my typical setup.

Originally Posted by Silas Pradetto

Sounds like a plan. I have yet to find a way to easily mount grilles that keeps them from ringing and yet keeps them light. All the designs that I like require all kinds of fancy machining, custom punching, or at least a brake to shape the steel. I prefer flat grilles, but they never seem strong enough.

Your design seems like it works well, it's probably pretty heavy though.

Do you cloth or foam the backs?

My box's are so light to begin with the extra few lbs of my grills is not noticed. I don't use any cloth on them, and the coatings on them take the ringing down to that of being equall with the eaw or jbl grills. I have worked with a lot of steel as a hobbyist, so I have all kinds of welders and tools to work with steel.

These are strong enough!

I use rubber between the grill and box

Originally Posted by Silas Pradetto

PS Tom - I built tunings from scratch for the T2 boxes Graham got, they sound great. I only spent a half hour on it, but I was quite impressed with that DH1A.

Those boxes will give you some killer Biceps.

Originally Posted by Alan Sledzieski

Heres my typical setup.

Alan - do you typically set your amps on top of your subs, (or up that high and facing FOH) or is that so you can monitor thier activity ?

Originally Posted by Shane Presley

Alan - do you typically set your amps on top of your subs, (or up that high and facing FOH) or is that so you can monitor thier activity ?

Yes, they are always on the subs, being doing this for 20 years, never had a problem with vibration.

Reasons, So I can see whats going on, I also do a lot of outdoor shows, and 1 tarp quicklly covers the stack and amps. Plus the amps are out of the way, also makes running the speaker wire easy.

Originally Posted by Alan Sledzieski

Actually the problem with the CD horns that I hear are they are grainy, have comb filtering and hot freq's below 10k, 2 to 4k is where I here a small issue, then at around 7 k'ish they are really hot, just not smooth like the eaw or faital.

Alan,
There's a lot of reasons why it sounds bad. And the biggest, and most common mistake is mismatching horns and drivers. There's a good bit more to it then just picking a horn, driver and bolting them together. You need to match the flare of the compression driver's throat to the flare of the horn's throat. Most driver manufacturers make horns that match up nicely to their own products. If you don't match them up, you'll run into some of the issues you're experiencing. Another issue, as Silas pointed out is CD EQ. There's a reason most manufacturers put a larger boost up top.



Evan