X32 Discussion

Re: Vertical pairing

Dear Per,
I don't fully understand your point regarding DCA assignments. All input channels, aux ins, FX returns and mix buses can be assigned to DCA. Only Main LRC and Matrices are excluded. Let me know what you think.

Regards,
Jan
 
Re: Talkback to P16m

I also just noticed this. It doesnt appear that there is a way to directly route talkback to the P16 system. However, if you have a mixbus assigned to one of the P16 inputs, you could simply send your talkback through that mixbus as well. It would be nice if they added a direct connect via the talkback config panel tho.

Hey Guys,
I just wanted to point out that Talkback is an assignable option on the P16 Out page of the ROUTING menu (it is the very last option under the Monitor L and Monitor R options). You could dedicate a P16 channel for Talkback in this way as an alternative to routing through a mix bus as you describe. Hope it helps!

Best,
John DiNicola
Senior Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: Sub Groups always in pairs?

Did some more playing with the X32 last night; headed toward tracking drums.

A while back I asked about sub-groups vs. mix buses. After studying how things are setup at our church (which was done by a well experienced sound team; not me!), I decided to create a group for vocals, one for instruments, and one for the drums.

When I setup the bus as a group, the X32 (appears to have) automatically setup the adjacent bus the same way. I assume this is to permit a stereo group, but what if I really only want a mono sub-group? Is that possible, or are groups always done in stereo pairs? No problem when I set them up as mix buses, but the group configuration surprised me.

-- Mitch

Hi Mitch,
You are correct in that assigning a bus as a subgroup it does setup the adjacent bus the same way.
If you only need a mono group, I would suggest using setting up a "Post Fader" bus send. Even though this still will act on a pair of busses, they will be two separate MONO busses (unless you have those busses linked). Hope it helps!

Best,
John DiNicola
Senior Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 
Re: S16 and XiControl gain not working

Dear Dick,
Your observation is correct, and it is a known topic we accepted for the time being, because anyway S16 were not yet available when v1.2 was released. The XiControl 1.2 was submitted for Apple approval several weeks before the required OSC server update in the console firmware was available. However, the recent fw release 1.10 includes the additional protocol and the next release of XiControl 1.3 will allow remote access to the S16 preamps. FYI, XiControl 1.3 is providing many additional features and is definitely a major update. We just start the internal QA procedures, the planned submission to Apple is before end of the year. So, it will be available in the app-store early next year.

Your suggestion copying channel gain information whenever remote preamps are connected to that channel is a bit tricky, actually. Currently the analog gain parameter is a property of the preamp, not a property of the channel it is sent to. Which makes sense, because the mic is physically connected to the preamp so its analog gain setting will only be relevant to this preamp. Consequently, the analog gain setting for a preamp that is feeding two channels can only be defined once! You can verify this on the console e.g. by using the same local input on Ch1 and Ch2. Copying information from a random channel to a preamp might rather be dangerous, than useful. The Trim however, is a property of the channel, as it is independent from any hardware. That means trims can be different on two channels being fed from the same source.

When the AES50 connection between S16 and console is established, and the corresponding AES50 channels are routed to the channel processing, then the S16 preamp gain will follow the X32 Gain control. Please note that the physical preamp gain stages have a resolution of 2.5 dB (20 steps, -2...+45.5 dB), as you can see at the S16 gain display or on the X32 Setup/preamps page. When an analog preamp is patched to one of the X32 input channels, the range will be expanded and interpolated digitally (0.5 dB steps, -12 dB ... +60 dB), with a total of 145 steps. E.g., if you are altering the console gain from 13...15 dB, you wouldn’t notice any change on the S16, because the analog A/D Gain will remain at +13 dB.


Jan

Thanks for the clarification. The only time gain control from the iPad is an issue, is when I'm sound checking a new band. Then gain obviously has to be set using the X32 or S16. Once initial gain settings are stored, its not a problem. Looking forward to XiControl 1.3. The concept of copying channel gain again is only an issue when creating a new scene using the S16, based on a scene using the X32 preamps.

And thanks for clarifying the differences between gain resolution on the S16 and X32. Not really an issue, as I don't really monitor gain on the S16 much.
 
Re: Talkback to P16m

Hey Guys,
I just wanted to point out that Talkback is an assignable option on the P16 Out page of the ROUTING menu (it is the very last option under the Monitor L and Monitor R options). You could dedicate a P16 channel for Talkback in this way as an alternative to routing through a mix bus as you describe. Hope it helps!

Best,
John DiNicola
Senior Specialist, Product Support
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER

That works but it also eats up a P16 channel. With floor monitors I dont have to use up the channel to send talk back. Is there a way to overlay in the same manor with P16? THat is what I am referring to.
 
Re: Firmware v1.10 Release Notes

Mick -
Sorry to disagree with you about the"fader-select" option, [Don't be... I don't mind] I feel it'snot only unnecessary, but a hindrance to good mixing [That's fine...Everyone is entitled to their opinion]. Because youpersonally have become accustomed to something doesn't mean it's proper orvital [I don't recall saying either. I simply requested afeature, and qualified that request with personal experience]. Yes, I boughtone of the first LS9-32s to hit the US in 2005, used it for over 5 years andregularly used the auto-select function - until the final time I EQ'd the wrongchannel. Why remove the ability to mix faders while performing adjustments on agiven channel strip? [Did I ask for something to be REMOVED? Ibelieve I request a feature be ADDED] Why riskmerely bumping or accidentally touching a fader and being inadvertentlyre-selected? [If you have a problem with accidentally bumping yourfaders, I'd suggest that's a personal problem. I don't have that problem, sofor me there's no risk]

If you are forgetting to select a channel before making its adjustments, Isuggest that's a personal problem, not a problem with console function.
[Agreed. Again, Idon't recall saying there was ANY problem with how the console functioned. Isimply requested a feature be added]

If Behringer sees fit to add an auto-select option, fine with me
[Thank you for yourapproval! However, you'll note I addressed the post to Mr. Behringer, not Mr.Tyler. So although accepted, your approval really isn't necessary.], but theimportance of this feature is minimal at best, IMO. [Oh boy... Help me out here, would you? I'm over50 so I'm not up with all the latest acronyms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "IMO"means "In My Opinion"? If that's the case, be careful... You know whatthey say about opinions.]
-Tim Tyler

Tim, My response is above, inline with yours. Hope you don't mind.
-Mark (NOT Mick)
 
Re: Talkback to P16m

With floor monitors you still have to assign the talkback to one the mix busses that are going to those monitors, don't you? Couldn't you send the talkback to any mix bus that is also being sent to the P16?, if you in fact end up needing all 16 sends to the P16's? I see your point that a dedicated "All P16" send type of thing would be prudent, but if I'm understanding the protocols correctly the Ultranet specifically uses 16 channels in its data, so you have three options in this case:
  • Rewrite the Ultranet protocol as 17 channels; with the first 16 assignable on the P16M as standard, and the 17th direct and un-adjustable.
  • Change the name to "P15M" and only allow 15 channels, using the 16th channel in the Ultranet protocol as that direct/un-adjustable talkback feed, which would be the same as assigning talkback to the 16th channel anyway and making sure everyone has that feed on.
  • Have the console override all 16 P16 sends (to be safe, in case some people don't have all the channels on) when talkback is pushed, leading to anywhere from 1 to 16 channels on the P16 all changing to the same audio and it being combined and amplified to an ear shattering volume when someone has 14 of those 16 channels selected and turned up.
I think John's suggestion is perfectly reasonable unless for some reason you find you need to send 16 different signals to the P16s, in which case I would find a mix bus or set of mix busses that are being sent to the P16s and assign it to those, relying on the performers to have at least one of those channels active on their personal P16M.
 
Re: Talkback to P16m

With floor monitors you still have to assign the talkback to one the mix busses that are going to those monitors, don't you? Couldn't you send the talkback to any mix bus that is also being sent to the P16?, if you in fact end up needing all 16 sends to the P16's? I see your point that a dedicated "All P16" send type of thing would be prudent, but if I'm understanding the protocols correctly the Ultranet specifically uses 16 channels in its data, so you have three options in this case:
  • Rewrite the Ultranet protocol as 17 channels; with the first 16 assignable on the P16M as standard, and the 17th direct and un-adjustable.
  • Change the name to "P15M" and only allow 15 channels, using the 16th channel in the Ultranet protocol as that direct/un-adjustable talkback feed, which would be the same as assigning talkback to the 16th channel anyway and making sure everyone has that feed on.
  • Have the console override all 16 P16 sends (to be safe, in case some people don't have all the channels on) when talkback is pushed, leading to anywhere from 1 to 16 channels on the P16 all changing to the same audio and it being combined and amplified to an ear shattering volume when someone has 14 of those 16 channels selected and turned up.
I think John's suggestion is perfectly reasonable unless for some reason you find you need to send 16 different signals to the P16s, in which case I would find a mix bus or set of mix busses that are being sent to the P16s and assign it to those, relying on the performers to have at least one of those channels active on their personal P16M.

This all makes sense and is how to work with it for now. All I am saying is that it would be nice if it worked like it does for the mixbusses. Talk-back doesn't use up the channel, it simply injects the signal into that specified channel. Too me it would make more sense to do the same with P16 to either inject into specific channels or all of them. That way you don't have to worry about "well i had that channel off so I didnt hear you". The only real issue would be to make sure the talkback level is not blasting the ears.

Again this isnt a requirement, just something that I could see being useful provided there is some sort of protection built in.
 
S16's

Could one of the behringer guys let us know when there will be a manual for this? - could only find the quick start guide - a bit basic

I must admit it took me a little time to get the inputs set up correctly - currently have the S16 as the master clock - will the X32 also act as a master? - have yet to check the outs!

I would also like to use the adat outs to go to a HDR recorder - but am a little concerned that this will not work with no separate word clock sync in/outs - presume that clocking is via the adat - I am wondering whether the only way would be to go via ADA8000's and have analogue inputs to the HDR.

I reckon that having no separate wordclock sync options on the X32 and the S16 may cause some problems ( and extra expense)!

BTW is it worth having a separate thread for the S16?

Nick
 
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Re: Vertical pairing

Dear Per,
I don't fully understand your point regarding DCA assignments. All input channels, aux ins, FX returns and mix buses can be assigned to DCA. Only Main LRC and Matrices are excluded. Let me know what you think.

Regards,
Jan

My thinking is simply that by allowing the DCA to be assigned to the remaining group, one can set up to use the DCAs for everything and not have to switch pages providing you don't need more than eight faders. Only marginally useful, I know.
What would be more usefull is to have the Main LR fader (and the M/C for that matter) assignable as one (or two) extra DCAs to control several independant output channels with one master fader ( when using aux fed subs and fills etc. ) when you want independant signal paths but a common master control
 
Re: Post fader metering


X32 Expansion Cards


Dear all,

we are in the process of developing further Expansion Cards for the X32.

Aside from a USB recording card that directly connects with an external HD, we are also considering to offer a Dante networking card.

Can you please share with us what you would be interested in.

Many thanks!

Warm regards (@ 32 degree Celsius in Manila)

Uli

32 track recording (and playback) would be great, having something that is instantly available and allways there (whith the drive firmly attached inside the flightcase), would make life easier. If it would do 32ch 24 bit reliably, I would buy the card.

Dante seems to be very popular, and an implementation that would allow a complete bridge, ie. AES50A+AES50B+X32(32+16) would be a fantastic thing to have if it was reliable, and I would be tempted not to buy the 32ch direct to harddrive recording card if they both were offered at the same time.

Edit: I realize after searching for available solutions that anything beyond 64-64 is probably going to be very expensive and not very well supported, but a 64x64 Dante implementation that would work with the virtual soundcard would be absolute mega.

Cold regards from Norway (@ -15C)
 
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Re: Post fader metering


X32 Expansion Cards


Dear all,

we are in the process of developing further Expansion Cards for the X32.

Aside from a USB recording card that directly connects with an external HD, we are also considering to offer a Dante networking card.

Can you please share with us what you would be interested in.

Many thanks!

Warm regards (@ 32 degree Celsius in Manila)

Uli

Uli,
How about a card that adds some digital I/O capabilities? Right now, X32 users have no option but to use analog I/O, aside from the one AES output. I know it's not that big of a deal to most concert engineers, but in theatrical and broadcast scenarios, you often have lots of local sound sources (CD players, video playback decks, sound FX playback, etc), as well as needing lots of outbound aux/monitor and mix minus busses, etc. In this case, the receiving piece of equipment often has AES or S/Pdif inputs. The lack of digital I/O on the X32 in general, has been my primary complaint from the beginning. Where more than a few digital I/O's are needed, you could develop an external unit that sits on the AES50 buss. But as for expansion cards, I don't see a reason why one something like 4 S/Pdif, and 4 AES pairs couldn't be done. Even if you had to do a break-out due to space limitations.
 
Re: Firmware v1.10 Release Notes

MARK (not "Mick", apologies to you and any Micks in the house...)

I responded to your post to clarify for those who may not be familiar with "touch fader" usage that there are problems with this function that are significant.

You certainly DID request a "feature" to be removed, and that is the ability to SIMULTANEOUSLY mix faders while performing channel adjustments on another given channel. If I want to work on a channel I don't want to stop and reselect it every time I adjust another fader. I've done it both ways, pushing a channel "select" key is no great challenge and avoids a potential problem. Uli is not "missing the boat" here.

I have no problem with being quoted, "inline" or otherwise, but the screwed up passages you presented do not represent what I posted. Some editing is in order.

-Tim T
 
Re:channels follow faders

This was (is) a preference option on the old behringer DDX3216 i.e you could select or deselect it

I did try it once - but as Tim said it was more hassle than it was worth - but then again people have different ways of working - and to a certain extent it is what you get used to and are familiar with. As a preference option it would be OK - but arguably behringers efforts should be channeled (no pun intended) to more globally useful enhancements.

Is there a poll option on this forum? - perhaps for some requests for developments a poll could be started e.g with categories : essential -really need/ would be nice/ not bothered-don't want !

Nick
 
Re: Post fader metering

Aside from a USB recording card that directly connects with an external HD, we are also considering to offer a Dante networking card.
Can you please share with us what you would be interested in.

On any future cards, please add an external world clock port of some sort. Thanks!
 
Re: S16's

Could one of the behringer guys let us know when there will be a manual for this? - could only find the quick start guide - a bit basic

On the X32 product page, directly above the bar where it has the Overview/Review/downloads etc. links, to the left of the page there is a pop up menu that should say "Documentation" where if you click on it you can, hopefully, download the manual. The pop up does nothing in Safari on Mac OSX (at least for me). Ok, on a hunch I disabled the Safari pop-up blocker and I was able to (finally) download the full manual. Why they don't just have the English Manual in the download section with the Quick Start Guide that's also in the download section.... /grumble....
 
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Re: S16's

On the X32 product page, directly above the bar where it has the Overview/Review/downloads etc. links, to the left of the page there is a pop up menu that should say "Documentation" where if you click on it you can, hopefully, download the manual. The pop up does nothing in Safari on Mac OSX (at least for me). Ok, on a hunch I disabled the Safari pop-up blocker and I was able to (finally) download the full manual. Why they don't just have the English Manual in the download section with the Quick Start Guide that's also in the download section.... /grumble....

Yes, the manual for the X32 is there, but I believe the request was for a manual for the S16. All that exists for the S16 is the spec sheet and the quick start guide.
 
Re: Vertical pairing

My thinking is simply that by allowing the DCA to be assigned to the remaining group, one can set up to use the DCAs for everything and not have to switch pages providing you don't need more than eight faders. Only marginally useful, I know.
What would be more usefull is to have the Main LR fader (and the M/C for that matter) assignable as one (or two) extra DCAs to control several independant output channels with one master fader ( when using aux fed subs and fills etc. ) when you want independant signal paths but a common master control

I assign everything I need to DCA's and then have everything else on one layer so you get 24 faders.
 
Re: S16's ( dummies guide!)

Yes, the manual for the X32 is there, but I believe the request was for a manual for the S16. All that exists for the S16 is the spec sheet and the quick start guide.

Precisely: there is some help in the X32 manual - but still not too clear about the S16 settings itself.
Yesterday I did manage to get the inputs from one S16 to go to the console - a bit of a trail and error - and haven't checked out the outputs from the console to the S16 yet.

However, I want to daisy chain two S16 to ( at this point) simply have them mirror the x32 32 inputs and 16 outputs - at this point I am not totally clear about the settings on the S16s ( and the X32) and again may be a bit of "I think this" and trial and error.(on paper it looks straight forward(ish))......BUT if anyone has set this up and could provide a quick "dummies" guide to the settings I would be very grateful (especially those for the daisy chained S16)- need to use the S16s tomorrow so need to figure it out today,

many thanks

Nick
 
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Re: Vertical pairing

I assign everything I need to DCA's and then have everything else on one layer so you get 24 faders.
Yeah, that's my way of doing it as well

DCA1: Keys
DCA2: Drums
DCA3: Playback
DCA4: Reverbs
DCA5: Delays
DCA6: Vocal Monitors
DCA7: Monitor group
DCA8: Subs or rear effect speakers

I would like the subs to be dependant on the main fader although they are aux send, and if I could vertically pair playback and keys, I could free up a couple more DCAs to use for other things