The SM58...

Re: The SM58...

LOL.

What would the units be on such a meter?

dN - deciNeve
one deciNeve is the increase in quality claimed to be heard by some
ten deciNeve is a doubling of quality, distinguishable without AB testing
100 dN - the value measured from a reference neve preamp
0 dN - the lowest quality where the original sound is still distinguishable from random noise

dNA - measurement of absolute quality
dNP - measurement of percieved quality
 
Re: The SM58...

dN - deciNeve
one deciNeve is the increase in quality claimed to be heard by some
ten deciNeve is a doubling of quality, distinguishable without AB testing
100 dN - the value measured from a reference neve preamp
0 dN - the lowest quality where the original sound is still distinguishable from random noise

dNA - measurement of absolute quality
dNP - measurement of percieved quality

You copied that straight from the manual!
 
Re: The SM58...

I have a very lightly used SM57 that I bought some 20 years ago, and access to a SMAART rig and plenty of much more recent SM57's at work. What sort of tests are we interested in?

Here's how I did it - have Gillian Welch and David Rawlins stand on stage, with an SM57 on a stand pointed at the 18th fret of Ms. Welch's Gibson J50 guitar. She plays a few chords. See if Welch and Rawlins smile, or scowl. Replace SM57 with another and repeat. Pretty soon you'll have two piles of 57s - ones that make smiles, and ones that make scowls.

Then do the same thing with SM58s and Ms. Welch's voice...
 
Here's how I did it - have Gillian Welch and David Rawlins stand on stage, with an SM57 on a stand pointed at the 18th fret of Ms. Welch's Gibson J50 guitar. She plays a few chords. See if Welch and Rawlins smile, or scowl. Replace SM57 with another and repeat. Pretty soon you'll have two piles of 57s - ones that make smiles, and ones that make scowls.

Then do the same thing with SM58s and Ms. Welch's voice...

Ha! I know what you mean. Two and a half hour soundcheck for two mics once. David Rawlings and I adjusting the FOH eq by .5dB increments and fooling ourselves as to whether it sounded better or not while she sang and played...

Very meditative... :)
Jason
 
Re: The SM58...

Here's how I did it - have Gillian Welch and David Rawlins stand on stage, with an SM57 on a stand pointed at the 18th fret of Ms. Welch's Gibson J50 guitar. She plays a few chords. See if Welch and Rawlins smile, or scowl. Replace SM57 with another and repeat. Pretty soon you'll have two piles of 57s - ones that make smiles, and ones that make scowls.

Then do the same thing with SM58s and Ms. Welch's voice...

Dave and Jason, I'm in that club too.

Here's my response to a "who has the longest sound check" question in a facebook production group:

"Gillian Welch and David Rawlings, performing as a duo once spent 3 1/2 hours comparing and choosing between 16 Shure SM57s (4 of theirs and a dozen of mine) for their two guitar and two vocal mics. Back and forth between various pairs of mics to pick the four that sounded "best".

Their guy and I were both going back and forth between "is this REALLY happening" and "how do we continue to look alert and interested".
 
Re: The SM58...

Wait, you had to look alert and interested?

So, can you tell us anything about the mics they ended up choosing? Were there any factors other than the sound that might have impacted the selections they chose?
 
Re: The SM58...

<snip>
"Gillian Welch and David Rawlings, performing as a duo once spent 3 1/2 hours comparing and choosing between 16 Shure SM57s (4 of theirs and a dozen of mine) for their two guitar and two vocal mics. Back and forth between various pairs of mics to pick the four that sounded "best". <snip>

They prescribe Prosac for that kind of behaviour. But seriously, in that sort of situation one really needs a good sorting method or it can take forever. Selecting the best of ten takes 9 AB tests and shouldn't go beyond that, and one has to have the dicipline or courage to not go back and forth if there is no obvious difference, either you hear it or you don't. If you don't hear a difference in the first comparison, have a firm rule for which one gets picked.
 
Re: The SM58...

dN - deciNeve
one deciNeve is the increase in quality claimed to be heard by some
ten deciNeve is a doubling of quality, distinguishable without AB testing
100 dN - the value measured from a reference neve preamp
0 dN - the lowest quality where the original sound is still distinguishable from random noise

dNA - measurement of absolute quality
dNP - measurement of percieved quality

LMAO. You know .... that actually makes some perverse sense ;)

You need to add a limit light on the meter so that when things start sounding REALLY bad, the limiter hits and flashes the little red LED light ;)
 
Re: The SM58...

LMAO. You know .... that actually makes some perverse sense ;)

You need to add a limit light on the meter so that when things start sounding REALLY bad, the limiter hits and flashes the little red LED light ;)

What is bad? A classic Marshall stack at full tilt will probably measure about 10 dNA but 120 dNP, so any limiter working from these scales would have to be context sensitive and user adjustable as a minimum.
 
Re: The SM58...

Ya know, I scanned over this thread in what I thought was the first time and I was about to admonish some of the posters for buying into and participating in such an obvious troll/bait thread where we should all know better and just let this thread die.

So imagine my horror of horrors when I, in fact, came across my own response in this jackolantern of a thread.

It's gotta be a disease. And I'm seeking treatment.

Today.

Geri O
 
Ha! I know what you mean. Two and a half hour soundcheck for two mics once. David Rawlings and I adjusting the FOH eq by .5dB increments and fooling ourselves as to whether it sounded better or not while she sang and played...

Very meditative... :)
Jason

I did a gig mixing FOH for a small folk act, which is led by a local respected mastering engineer. He's owned a mastering studio for longer then I've been alive and he's busier then ever these days.

After visually inspecting the digital console to see that I had turned off all EQ & dynamics, we then spent a leisurely two hours working on mic placement and listening. He supplied all his own mics (which were very nice) and the group was very quiet on-stage... On a handful of sources, he had me place .5 - 1.5 dB EQ cuts as he deemed necessary.
The results were good, but somewhat pointless as the musicians began to act like musicians, and move around a bit during the show. I'd have preferred a bit more close micing, as his careful placements were just too far to allow much of a sweet spot.
I don't remember doing less work behind a console for two hours on any other gig... He didn't want me to change anything, and he personally wanted to position the mics & listen. I had so little to do, I ordered, received & ate Chinese delivery for dinner during the second hour.

No SM58's or 57's were deployed in this case, though the house mic kit was full of them. By looking at his mic kit, he may have considered those to be "too modern" for his taste!
 
Re: The SM58...

I did a gig mixing FOH for a small folk act, which is led by a local respected mastering engineer. He's owned a mastering studio for longer then I've been alive and he's busier then ever these days.

After visually inspecting the digital console to see that I had turned off all EQ & dynamics, we then spent a leisurely two hours working on mic placement and listening. He supplied all his own mics (which were very nice) and the group was very quiet on-stage... On a handful of sources, he had me place .5 - 1.5 dB EQ cuts as he deemed necessary.
The results were good, but somewhat pointless as the musicians began to act like musicians, and move around a bit during the show. I'd have preferred a bit more close micing, as his careful placements were just too far to allow much of a sweet spot.
I don't remember doing less work behind a console for two hours on any other gig... He didn't want me to change anything, and he personally wanted to position the mics & listen. I had so little to do, I ordered, received & ate Chinese delivery for dinner during the second hour.

No SM58's or 57's were deployed in this case, though the house mic kit was full of them. By looking at his mic kit, he may have considered those to be "too modern" for his taste!

Some people just really like the look of those big shiny chrome ribbon mics ;)
 
Re: The SM58...

Their guy and I were both going back and forth between "is this REALLY happening" and "how do we continue to look alert and interested".

Couple of things - when I dealt with them they didn't have a "guy", and I actually enjoyed the process. It didn't really take all that long either. The odd thing was that we were all in substantial agreement on which ones we liked.