New QSC amp ????
- Thread starter Mike Caldwell
- Start date
Re: New QSC amp ????
I don't know details of QSC's speaker business and they should probably sell whatever customers want and they can make money on, but there is strategic logic in selling powered speakers if my crystal ball is correct and powered boxes capture a significant share of the market, eroding stand alone amp sales.
The QSC dsp+amp platform looks like a nice OEM piece to sell to small speaker companies, or not....
Perhaps I should let the QSC guys answer questions about QSC.
JR
I don't know details of QSC's speaker business and they should probably sell whatever customers want and they can make money on, but there is strategic logic in selling powered speakers if my crystal ball is correct and powered boxes capture a significant share of the market, eroding stand alone amp sales.
The QSC dsp+amp platform looks like a nice OEM piece to sell to small speaker companies, or not....
Perhaps I should let the QSC guys answer questions about QSC.
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
Also the Acoustic Performance (or AP) series, which just came out recently.
Also the Acoustic Performance (or AP) series, which just came out recently.
Re: New QSC amp ????
Well, there are reasons to put dead time in the switching of class D output devices, despite the additional challenge it presents (dead time introduces a distortion mechanism that is sort of class D's version of class B crossover distortion).
Well, there are reasons to put dead time in the switching of class D output devices, despite the additional challenge it presents (dead time introduces a distortion mechanism that is sort of class D's version of class B crossover distortion).
Re: New QSC amp ????
Not to veer to far off topic back about a hundred years ago with a very early class D amp there was a variation where the devices did not turn completely off, I wanted to call it class AD but it was hard to be too proud of a couple hundred watt power-amp/hand-grenade.
It seems some known dead time can be small with fast devices and managed with overall NFB.
Good luck with the new amps.
JR
Well, there are reasons to put dead time in the switching of class D output devices, despite the additional challenge it presents (dead time introduces a distortion mechanism that is sort of class D's version of class B crossover distortion).
Not to veer to far off topic back about a hundred years ago with a very early class D amp there was a variation where the devices did not turn completely off, I wanted to call it class AD but it was hard to be too proud of a couple hundred watt power-amp/hand-grenade.
It seems some known dead time can be small with fast devices and managed with overall NFB.
Good luck with the new amps.
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
I'm intrigued at how the outputs can be flexibly paralleled.
Looking through the quick start guide, it appeared that the various combinations of series/parallel were handled by externally wiring to the appropriate outputs, then....... I got to Figure 8 which shows that the parallel outputs can be accessed from ANY of the 4 output channels (for ABCD setup).
Matt, Bob... are there internal relays for paralleling channels? Or is there some other semiconductor magic?
Thanks,
I'm intrigued at how the outputs can be flexibly paralleled.
Looking through the quick start guide, it appeared that the various combinations of series/parallel were handled by externally wiring to the appropriate outputs, then....... I got to Figure 8 which shows that the parallel outputs can be accessed from ANY of the 4 output channels (for ABCD setup).
Matt, Bob... are there internal relays for paralleling channels? Or is there some other semiconductor magic?
Thanks,
Re: New QSC amp ????
The quick start guide at http://www.qsc.com/files/5213/7106/0424/CXD_Quick_Start_Guide_B.pdf (Page 3) seems to show that you need to manually add jumpers to the speaker outputs for parallel mode.
which is VERY counter-intuitive so I hope there is a big sticker on top of the amp to show all of the possible configurations.
also, I would assume that the jumpering at the speaker terminals must match the software settings.. it's too bad they didn't add relays as I can see that becoming a mess if it is wired for one thing and then someone changes the settings it could take a long time to find the reason things aren't working right.
Edit: it looks like that only applies to the CXD, where the PLD shows that for one channel operation you can connect to "Any" output. so maybe they only put relays in those models, hoping that install techs have the time to think things through
Jason
The quick start guide at http://www.qsc.com/files/5213/7106/0424/CXD_Quick_Start_Guide_B.pdf (Page 3) seems to show that you need to manually add jumpers to the speaker outputs for parallel mode.
which is VERY counter-intuitive so I hope there is a big sticker on top of the amp to show all of the possible configurations.
also, I would assume that the jumpering at the speaker terminals must match the software settings.. it's too bad they didn't add relays as I can see that becoming a mess if it is wired for one thing and then someone changes the settings it could take a long time to find the reason things aren't working right.
Edit: it looks like that only applies to the CXD, where the PLD shows that for one channel operation you can connect to "Any" output. so maybe they only put relays in those models, hoping that install techs have the time to think things through
Jason
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Re: New QSC amp ????
Let me answer with a question, how much are you willing to pay for how much output power side routing with computer control?
Adjacent channels "only" could be shunted by adding 3 high current SPST relays, but these would cost money. Take up space, and require some extra glue circuitry.
A more comprehensive output steering matrix might be provided with solid state switching but this could compromise path integrity (distortion, reliability), and again will cost more money.
The customer is always right, so how much is it worth to you to "automatically" jumper outputs together, to save the effort of connecting a few jumpers? Note: The cost of adding automatic output shunts will have to be paid by all customers, even those not combining amp stages.
Re: Avoiding input/output conflicts, I would expect amplifier outputs to not only tolerate transient short circuits to ground, but hopefully shorts to each other (when not linked). If they detect output current ( a useful feature) they could pretty quickly identify fault conditions to protect themselves. Of course do not take my speculation for fact. Caveat lector.
JR
Let me answer with a question, how much are you willing to pay for how much output power side routing with computer control?
Adjacent channels "only" could be shunted by adding 3 high current SPST relays, but these would cost money. Take up space, and require some extra glue circuitry.
A more comprehensive output steering matrix might be provided with solid state switching but this could compromise path integrity (distortion, reliability), and again will cost more money.
The customer is always right, so how much is it worth to you to "automatically" jumper outputs together, to save the effort of connecting a few jumpers? Note: The cost of adding automatic output shunts will have to be paid by all customers, even those not combining amp stages.
Re: Avoiding input/output conflicts, I would expect amplifier outputs to not only tolerate transient short circuits to ground, but hopefully shorts to each other (when not linked). If they detect output current ( a useful feature) they could pretty quickly identify fault conditions to protect themselves. Of course do not take my speculation for fact. Caveat lector.
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
Will any of these boxes compete with the JBL SRX/STX & EV QRX? Or maybe evn the KF650/SLS960?
Will any of these boxes compete with the JBL SRX/STX & EV QRX? Or maybe evn the KF650/SLS960?
Re: New QSC amp ????
I completely agree. Personally, I would like to avoid relays and solid state switching (for the reasons you mention).
I'm still curious how the PLD does it. Maybe the quick-start guide is wrong and we have to make up multi-speakon joiner cables.
I completely agree. Personally, I would like to avoid relays and solid state switching (for the reasons you mention).
I'm still curious how the PLD does it. Maybe the quick-start guide is wrong and we have to make up multi-speakon joiner cables.
Re: New QSC amp ????
There are actually relays internal to the amp -- both on cxd and pld -- so it isn't a hard requirement to physically parallel outside of the amp -- works just perfect without. We just found that you can get better performance if each speaker has a home run back to the amp.
Make sense?
Matt
Director, Power R&D, QSC Audio Products LLC.
There are actually relays internal to the amp -- both on cxd and pld -- so it isn't a hard requirement to physically parallel outside of the amp -- works just perfect without. We just found that you can get better performance if each speaker has a home run back to the amp.
Make sense?
Matt
Director, Power R&D, QSC Audio Products LLC.
Re: New QSC amp ????
AP boxes are front loaded install boxes that don't require dedicated processing to make them work. So, they are not comparable to any KF. They are not heavy, portable, power guzzling speakers, so they are not comparable to STX or QRX (I cannot believe EV has not revamped that line).
AP boxes are front loaded install boxes that don't require dedicated processing to make them work. So, they are not comparable to any KF. They are not heavy, portable, power guzzling speakers, so they are not comparable to STX or QRX (I cannot believe EV has not revamped that line).
Re: New QSC amp ????
AMS says PLD 4.2 will be available 9/2/2013 at $1,399. My guess is that the stated price is more accurate than the stated date.
AMS says PLD 4.2 will be available 9/2/2013 at $1,399. My guess is that the stated price is more accurate than the stated date.
Re: New QSC amp ????
My rep is great. He keeps his mouth closed until he has all the info and it is timely for me. According to my rep, they have all of this down and done now. They have been working on this technology for a few years IIRC. QSC doesn't have a history of doing a show and sales rep in-office training unless product is close. They have not done the dog and pony show or given me info for anything other than real product. I keep asking about the digital console and get nuttin'.
My rep is great. He keeps his mouth closed until he has all the info and it is timely for me. According to my rep, they have all of this down and done now. They have been working on this technology for a few years IIRC. QSC doesn't have a history of doing a show and sales rep in-office training unless product is close. They have not done the dog and pony show or given me info for anything other than real product. I keep asking about the digital console and get nuttin'.
Re: New QSC amp ????
They don't yet, LOL!
I ordered one in mid October and it has not shipped. I just cancelled my order. QSC has not gotten any production units out the door yet.
I thought they were shipping when I ordered. Never would have ordered one if I'd known I'd be a first run tester. (can anyone say I-Tech melt down?)
They don't yet, LOL!
I ordered one in mid October and it has not shipped. I just cancelled my order. QSC has not gotten any production units out the door yet.
I thought they were shipping when I ordered. Never would have ordered one if I'd known I'd be a first run tester. (can anyone say I-Tech melt down?)
Re: New QSC amp ????
I was just at QSC for QSYS training a couple of weeks ago. The factory is very efficient. I was impressed.
The new amps will be shipping soon. The QSC guys do not want a black eye, and want these things to be right out of the gate. IIRC, I heard January as an ETA.
There is some cool new stuff coming.
I was just at QSC for QSYS training a couple of weeks ago. The factory is very efficient. I was impressed.
The new amps will be shipping soon. The QSC guys do not want a black eye, and want these things to be right out of the gate. IIRC, I heard January as an ETA.
There is some cool new stuff coming.
Re: New QSC amp ????
I still hope to buy one, but I'll wait till some have hit the ground and are known to be reliable.
Saying "they usually take a week or so to build before they ship" when the product has never shipped, is a bit of a falsehood.
They haven't built any yet, so for this product, "usually", does not exist yet.
My experiences w/QSC sales and QSC service have all been very positive in the past. That's why I ordered one.
Hate to see them playing the moving goal post game. Hopefully they'll get the bugs worked out and ship them. I'll be watching and hoping!
I still hope to buy one, but I'll wait till some have hit the ground and are known to be reliable.
Saying "they usually take a week or so to build before they ship" when the product has never shipped, is a bit of a falsehood.
They haven't built any yet, so for this product, "usually", does not exist yet.
My experiences w/QSC sales and QSC service have all been very positive in the past. That's why I ordered one.
Hate to see them playing the moving goal post game. Hopefully they'll get the bugs worked out and ship them. I'll be watching and hoping!
Re: New QSC amp ????
In the grand scheme of things it is far worse to ship a power amp that isn't ready for prime time than to delay it out of an excess of caution. We all recall such judgement calls where the expedient decision to ship too soon turned out badly. More often the ultimate availability is not some engineering judgement call, but component availability, or last minute changes that could not be anticipated before turning on volume production.
This is not a game to anybody involved, or decided casually. In the short term it is more stressful to delay than not, long term the best outcome for all involved is to get the product right first.
From my experience working in the industry there is huge pressure to show and ship new technology. It is also human nature to be optimistic about how much time it takes for a plan to come together. Non-engineering management looks at this as a double edged sword, between showing it too soon and irritating customers, or keeping it secret too long, not putting enough pressure on engineering to finish.
JR
In the grand scheme of things it is far worse to ship a power amp that isn't ready for prime time than to delay it out of an excess of caution. We all recall such judgement calls where the expedient decision to ship too soon turned out badly. More often the ultimate availability is not some engineering judgement call, but component availability, or last minute changes that could not be anticipated before turning on volume production.
This is not a game to anybody involved, or decided casually. In the short term it is more stressful to delay than not, long term the best outcome for all involved is to get the product right first.
From my experience working in the industry there is huge pressure to show and ship new technology. It is also human nature to be optimistic about how much time it takes for a plan to come together. Non-engineering management looks at this as a double edged sword, between showing it too soon and irritating customers, or keeping it secret too long, not putting enough pressure on engineering to finish.
JR
Re: New QSC amp ????
I agree wholeheartedly on everything you said, J.R.
better safe than sorry. Hurts a company rep less to be late and right, rather than early and wrong.
I just feel that companies should not not call something available until it really is.
I agree wholeheartedly on everything you said, J.R.
better safe than sorry. Hurts a company rep less to be late and right, rather than early and wrong.
I just feel that companies should not not call something available until it really is.