In my area, there are at least 12 sound companies within 25 miles of varying sizes who compete for gigs of various sizes, all of which I would do if possible. Wondering what others are dealing with.
What is your competition like?
- Thread starter John Chiara
- Start date
Re: What is your competition like?
Big fish in little pond, LOTS of ankle biters with MI gear. It's annoying because they all are willing to work for peanuts and I'd rather stay home than work for minimum wage (or less), the upside is they like to post lots of pictures that can be quite amusing (messy cabling) or quite scary (awful rigging attempts).
We have good relationships with some bigger fish from out of town who rent us gear when we need it, we recommend them for shows that are out of our league in return.
Big fish in little pond, LOTS of ankle biters with MI gear. It's annoying because they all are willing to work for peanuts and I'd rather stay home than work for minimum wage (or less), the upside is they like to post lots of pictures that can be quite amusing (messy cabling) or quite scary (awful rigging attempts).
We have good relationships with some bigger fish from out of town who rent us gear when we need it, we recommend them for shows that are out of our league in return.
RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS
Sophomore
Re: What is your competition like?
Of course things are a little more spread out here as our metro area is significantly larger. We have a hand full of ankle biters that are not legitimate businesses. We have a hand full of ankle biters that are legitimate businesses. We have some several larger Companies that probably consider us ankle biters. We have a several national providers. Some only do corporate work, some only do raves, some only do the Hispanic market. I would say we are just like any other major metropolitan area, there is plenty of work but some of the providers get more than everyone else.
Of course things are a little more spread out here as our metro area is significantly larger. We have a hand full of ankle biters that are not legitimate businesses. We have a hand full of ankle biters that are legitimate businesses. We have some several larger Companies that probably consider us ankle biters. We have a several national providers. Some only do corporate work, some only do raves, some only do the Hispanic market. I would say we are just like any other major metropolitan area, there is plenty of work but some of the providers get more than everyone else.
Re: What is your competition like?
Several really big well established companies. A very small number of companies in the middle with pro gear. The rest are really all MI and I would venture to say all of them lack insurance.
Several really big well established companies. A very small number of companies in the middle with pro gear. The rest are really all MI and I would venture to say all of them lack insurance.
Re: What is your competition like?
My competition comes in a few shapes and sizes.
The "annoying" competition is a bunch of Yamaha club series speakers, and a pile of mis-matched gear from the early 80's/90's. He underbids everyone, sends out crappy crews and honestly, I'm surprised his gear hasn't burned any venues down yet... He's the kind of guy that can send out 5 systems at a time, and yes, they make noise, but my god it is just not pleasant. The only reason he stays in business is because he can do so many shows at one time.
The "real" competition is a company that doesn't always underbid everyone, but rather, they just have a lot of idiot techs and poorly deploy systems all the time. They've got some big accounts in the area, and a lot of gear. I'm slowly stealing away some of their clients, but it's a big work in progress.
The "rest" all have an understanding with each other. We help each other out when needed, we stay out of each other's hair, stick to the same clients, don't try to steal anyone away from each other. It works out well- there's probably 6 other companies in my area that do a lot of the same type of gigs I do, but we just leave each other alone. We are all busy enough that we don't need anymore of those types of gigs. I'm the "largest" company in the area at this level, so people really don't mess with me.
Evan
My competition comes in a few shapes and sizes.
The "annoying" competition is a bunch of Yamaha club series speakers, and a pile of mis-matched gear from the early 80's/90's. He underbids everyone, sends out crappy crews and honestly, I'm surprised his gear hasn't burned any venues down yet... He's the kind of guy that can send out 5 systems at a time, and yes, they make noise, but my god it is just not pleasant. The only reason he stays in business is because he can do so many shows at one time.
The "real" competition is a company that doesn't always underbid everyone, but rather, they just have a lot of idiot techs and poorly deploy systems all the time. They've got some big accounts in the area, and a lot of gear. I'm slowly stealing away some of their clients, but it's a big work in progress.
The "rest" all have an understanding with each other. We help each other out when needed, we stay out of each other's hair, stick to the same clients, don't try to steal anyone away from each other. It works out well- there's probably 6 other companies in my area that do a lot of the same type of gigs I do, but we just leave each other alone. We are all busy enough that we don't need anymore of those types of gigs. I'm the "largest" company in the area at this level, so people really don't mess with me.
Evan
Re: What is your competition like?
The real question is...how do I go about gaining clients? I have no idea about 75% of the events that even go on. How do I get leads, etc. I admit I don't have the sales gene, and cannot promise what I can't deliver. Most buyers seem clueless about any quality concerns.
The real question is...how do I go about gaining clients? I have no idea about 75% of the events that even go on. How do I get leads, etc. I admit I don't have the sales gene, and cannot promise what I can't deliver. Most buyers seem clueless about any quality concerns.
Re: What is your competition like?
So quick question Evan. What do they think you would do if they did 'mess' with you? I find that wording confrontational. What is the actual dynamic of the situation?
So quick question Evan. What do they think you would do if they did 'mess' with you? I find that wording confrontational. What is the actual dynamic of the situation?
Re: What is your competition like?
The way i do it, I just keep an eye out everywhere, check with your local alliance there and stores that has signs of different upcoming events, facebook is a great tool that i use for finding out things. mainly keep your eyes open. Check with your arena there if yopu have one there in your town. a big portion of the work i do has been in our arena here in town. and it was because of ome gig out in the parking lot of it. and then that gig lead to another and that one to another and so on. any thing that can be big enough to host an event is worth looking in to. I went from doing 8 jobs my first year to almost 30 this year and i have been in it about 3 to 4 years now. this worked for me maybe it will work for you.
The way i do it, I just keep an eye out everywhere, check with your local alliance there and stores that has signs of different upcoming events, facebook is a great tool that i use for finding out things. mainly keep your eyes open. Check with your arena there if yopu have one there in your town. a big portion of the work i do has been in our arena here in town. and it was because of ome gig out in the parking lot of it. and then that gig lead to another and that one to another and so on. any thing that can be big enough to host an event is worth looking in to. I went from doing 8 jobs my first year to almost 30 this year and i have been in it about 3 to 4 years now. this worked for me maybe it will work for you.
RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS
Sophomore
Re: What is your competition like?
I have no idea what market you work in but is "almost 30 this year" really working?
John, I find that a lot of buyers these days don't care a lot about quality. They care about price and convenience. If you can show up with a pulse and still breathing and provide satisfactory results without any fuss then that is what a lot of customers want. Others want you to hold their hand through the entire planning process to make third lives easier and provide them with a sense of confidence. If you can do that then you will grow your business over time.
I have no idea what market you work in but is "almost 30 this year" really working?
John, I find that a lot of buyers these days don't care a lot about quality. They care about price and convenience. If you can show up with a pulse and still breathing and provide satisfactory results without any fuss then that is what a lot of customers want. Others want you to hold their hand through the entire planning process to make third lives easier and provide them with a sense of confidence. If you can do that then you will grow your business over time.
Re: What is your competition like?
I dont live in that big of a town, and it's more than i had when i started lol. so yes it's working for me.
I dont live in that big of a town, and it's more than i had when i started lol. so yes it's working for me.
Re: What is your competition like?
Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising you can have. People that organize events tend to know other people that organize events, and if you do a good job, they will recommend you. It's best to go after NEW events, or events that are quickly outgrowing their existing providers. You can build a solid reputation from that. If you decide to go after events that existing companies are working, you will burn your internal bridges in the business pretty quickly. Plus, if you can take those events away, that means they are quick to switch providers, so next year, someone else may get the job instead of you.
My business pays for itself with about 12 regular jobs per year. Some years I do more than that, but sometimes not. When I do more, I can buy more toys for me.
Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising you can have. People that organize events tend to know other people that organize events, and if you do a good job, they will recommend you. It's best to go after NEW events, or events that are quickly outgrowing their existing providers. You can build a solid reputation from that. If you decide to go after events that existing companies are working, you will burn your internal bridges in the business pretty quickly. Plus, if you can take those events away, that means they are quick to switch providers, so next year, someone else may get the job instead of you.
My business pays for itself with about 12 regular jobs per year. Some years I do more than that, but sometimes not. When I do more, I can buy more toys for me.
Re: What is your competition like?
It's always helped me that I personally go to the shows and setup my own rig and "glad-hand" the people in charge, they like the fact that someone who is actually in charge is on hand. I know on the larger scale this is not possible but some of my competition rarely attends their own shows, opting to send out a crew that appears to the client as only concerned with "getting done and getting paid." As much as we hate to admit it, most people understand little about equipment brands or sound quality, it's the "personal" and "business practices" end of the business that brings home the bacon in many cases.
It's always helped me that I personally go to the shows and setup my own rig and "glad-hand" the people in charge, they like the fact that someone who is actually in charge is on hand. I know on the larger scale this is not possible but some of my competition rarely attends their own shows, opting to send out a crew that appears to the client as only concerned with "getting done and getting paid." As much as we hate to admit it, most people understand little about equipment brands or sound quality, it's the "personal" and "business practices" end of the business that brings home the bacon in many cases.
Re: What is your competition like?
We've been working on a major account for almost 3 years, before the facility was even a hole in the ground. Now that they're up and running, our boss deals with the Suits and gives us a hand in set up, but mostly he's there to schmooze the client. It works out well.
Probably the biggest self-imposed obstacle for providers is having a less-than "can do" attitude. Even when clients want the impossible the right answer is "I'm pretty sure we can do that for you" and then give them a price so they can decide if their "need" is real.
Something I learned when I first started doing corporate work: "Clients don't ask us to do silly things, clients present us with the opportunity to add another line item to the invoice."
We've been working on a major account for almost 3 years, before the facility was even a hole in the ground. Now that they're up and running, our boss deals with the Suits and gives us a hand in set up, but mostly he's there to schmooze the client. It works out well.
Probably the biggest self-imposed obstacle for providers is having a less-than "can do" attitude. Even when clients want the impossible the right answer is "I'm pretty sure we can do that for you" and then give them a price so they can decide if their "need" is real.
Something I learned when I first started doing corporate work: "Clients don't ask us to do silly things, clients present us with the opportunity to add another line item to the invoice."
Re: What is your competition like?
+1 on that, I do the same way. Mine pays for it's self as well.
Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising you can have. People that organize events tend to know other people that organize events, and if you do a good job, they will recommend you. It's best to go after NEW events, or events that are quickly outgrowing their existing providers. You can build a solid reputation from that. If you decide to go after events that existing companies are working, you will burn your internal bridges in the business pretty quickly. Plus, if you can take those events away, that means they are quick to switch providers, so next year, someone else may get the job instead of you.
My business pays for itself with about 12 regular jobs per year. Some years I do more than that, but sometimes not. When I do more, I can buy more toys for me.
+1 on that, I do the same way. Mine pays for it's self as well.
Re: What is your competition like?
It really is all about service and relationships. I hate to admit it but we still don't even have a website. Almost all of our clients have come from referrals and repeat business and we work pretty much every week during the festival season. Clients that hire us know that the entertainment part of the show is handled. They are free to devote their time to other aspects of the event. I personally am available to all the bands, artists, road managers, etc. well before the event and make sure stage plots, equipment riders, and such are all handled. We always have at least one engineer designated as stage manager as well to make sure the changeovers and other things like performance times go smoothly. It is much more than just bringing out a nice sound system and an engineer to run it, it is about making the entertainment part of the event happen.
It really is all about service and relationships. I hate to admit it but we still don't even have a website. Almost all of our clients have come from referrals and repeat business and we work pretty much every week during the festival season. Clients that hire us know that the entertainment part of the show is handled. They are free to devote their time to other aspects of the event. I personally am available to all the bands, artists, road managers, etc. well before the event and make sure stage plots, equipment riders, and such are all handled. We always have at least one engineer designated as stage manager as well to make sure the changeovers and other things like performance times go smoothly. It is much more than just bringing out a nice sound system and an engineer to run it, it is about making the entertainment part of the event happen.
Re: What is your competition like?
I never did any advertising when I was in the rental part of this industry. It was all word of mouth and doing a good job. People hired me-not because of my gear-but rather the job that we did for them-with whatever gear we brought.
For most people that actually do the hiring-all they are interested in is a smooth running event-whatever it takes to do that. Then they look good and that is all they care about.
However not all gigs went smooth-and most of the time it was the fault of the artists-like the time a MAJOR 70's group made me look by by delaying the show over 30 minutes-because the monitor guy and FOH guy each had DIFFERENT input lists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But no amount of explaining to the people hiring-all they knew is that my sound company was running around confused when the "stars" were getting ready to play. I would like to slap the monitor guy for giving me the 24 channel list when I had a 48 channel sitting in front of him!!!!!!!
Yes I lost that gig next year-even though every other band on the multiday festival went great.
Exactly!
I never did any advertising when I was in the rental part of this industry. It was all word of mouth and doing a good job. People hired me-not because of my gear-but rather the job that we did for them-with whatever gear we brought.
For most people that actually do the hiring-all they are interested in is a smooth running event-whatever it takes to do that. Then they look good and that is all they care about.
However not all gigs went smooth-and most of the time it was the fault of the artists-like the time a MAJOR 70's group made me look by by delaying the show over 30 minutes-because the monitor guy and FOH guy each had DIFFERENT input lists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But no amount of explaining to the people hiring-all they knew is that my sound company was running around confused when the "stars" were getting ready to play. I would like to slap the monitor guy for giving me the 24 channel list when I had a 48 channel sitting in front of him!!!!!!!
Yes I lost that gig next year-even though every other band on the multiday festival went great.
Re: What is your competition like?
To clarify my position here. I am having a real hard time with a few companies who agree to do public city events, sponsored by a local BID organization and they do it for no profit or even enough to cover expenses by my calculations. I think the motivation is to take all the gigs so orhers can't have them, which has gone on around here for decades. I am a little tiffed at the municipality for knowingly playing along and basically putting on events where local restaurants and bars make a windfall profit on a weekday and the sound companies work for nothing. We are also businesses based in the city. As usual, if at least the production was stellar I could justify it from the audience perspective but obviously that is not the case and I am at a loss to understand the short or long term benefit of this arrangement. I was asked last week to provide at the last minute for a 2 day city event, and after making arrangements and getting labor agreements from people was informed that my conservative bid was almost double one of the other companies who got involved after the fact. Frustrating.
To clarify my position here. I am having a real hard time with a few companies who agree to do public city events, sponsored by a local BID organization and they do it for no profit or even enough to cover expenses by my calculations. I think the motivation is to take all the gigs so orhers can't have them, which has gone on around here for decades. I am a little tiffed at the municipality for knowingly playing along and basically putting on events where local restaurants and bars make a windfall profit on a weekday and the sound companies work for nothing. We are also businesses based in the city. As usual, if at least the production was stellar I could justify it from the audience perspective but obviously that is not the case and I am at a loss to understand the short or long term benefit of this arrangement. I was asked last week to provide at the last minute for a 2 day city event, and after making arrangements and getting labor agreements from people was informed that my conservative bid was almost double one of the other companies who got involved after the fact. Frustrating.
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Re: What is your competition like?
This kind of stuff happens.... There is a municipality around here that does much the same thing, they use gear supplied by the local (non-profit?) theater at no cost to the series and pay labor. Last time I quoted they decided to stick with their current arrangement as their per show cost was $200. Can't beat that, sorry.
There's also a lighting company north of here that got a bunch of free money somewhere and has gone around underbidding everyone, cold calling and slamming, with their shiny new audio gear and stages. They may have made it down to your area by now as well. I've lost a few things to these guys.
This kind of stuff happens.... There is a municipality around here that does much the same thing, they use gear supplied by the local (non-profit?) theater at no cost to the series and pay labor. Last time I quoted they decided to stick with their current arrangement as their per show cost was $200. Can't beat that, sorry.
There's also a lighting company north of here that got a bunch of free money somewhere and has gone around underbidding everyone, cold calling and slamming, with their shiny new audio gear and stages. They may have made it down to your area by now as well. I've lost a few things to these guys.
Re: What is your competition like?
I have learned some amazing things from my competition through the years:
1. Go ahead and poach bands and gigs from your competition by either drastically underbidding the cost/equipment or by promising to buy new equipment you don't have. When you get the new band/gig, post pictures of them using the competition equipment on stage on your own website. When you buy that shiny new equipment and can't figure out how to use it, you call always call the competition for help.
2. If you make at least one weekend van trip a year, advertise yourself as experienced in touring. If you make two van trips a year, then you can consider yourself "specializing" in touring.
3. Make sure you have a schedule of events on your website. Make sure everything music related is listed. If you are sitting at the bar while the house guy mixes your friends band, list it. If your band gets an opening slot for someone people have heard of, list your band and the headliner on your schedule. Working as a backstage volunteer at a festival where the only thing tech related you touch is your cell phone, list that too. Hell, nothing else going on so you buy a ticket to an act you really like, list that as well. (Be sure to take lots of pictures from the viewpoint of the people actually doing the work).
4. Don't forget the sales aspect. Make sure you keep a running list of all your broken gear so you can sell it to those bars who stuff is in even worse shape. Make sure your company logo is on all that stuff, so we know who is providing the monitors with blown HF, boom mic stands with booms that don't lock in position, intermittant cables, effects units that are missing half the buttons, ACP88's (in general), and mics that have been dropped so many times the ball looks like a taco.
Thats some for now, I will probably think of some more things later.
I have learned some amazing things from my competition through the years:
1. Go ahead and poach bands and gigs from your competition by either drastically underbidding the cost/equipment or by promising to buy new equipment you don't have. When you get the new band/gig, post pictures of them using the competition equipment on stage on your own website. When you buy that shiny new equipment and can't figure out how to use it, you call always call the competition for help.
2. If you make at least one weekend van trip a year, advertise yourself as experienced in touring. If you make two van trips a year, then you can consider yourself "specializing" in touring.
3. Make sure you have a schedule of events on your website. Make sure everything music related is listed. If you are sitting at the bar while the house guy mixes your friends band, list it. If your band gets an opening slot for someone people have heard of, list your band and the headliner on your schedule. Working as a backstage volunteer at a festival where the only thing tech related you touch is your cell phone, list that too. Hell, nothing else going on so you buy a ticket to an act you really like, list that as well. (Be sure to take lots of pictures from the viewpoint of the people actually doing the work).
4. Don't forget the sales aspect. Make sure you keep a running list of all your broken gear so you can sell it to those bars who stuff is in even worse shape. Make sure your company logo is on all that stuff, so we know who is providing the monitors with blown HF, boom mic stands with booms that don't lock in position, intermittant cables, effects units that are missing half the buttons, ACP88's (in general), and mics that have been dropped so many times the ball looks like a taco.
Thats some for now, I will probably think of some more things later.
Re: What is your competition like?
Our competition has done both of those! The worst is the guy that buys equipment from the other shop and then sends me a message on Facebook looking for tips.
They do that as well.
Check
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Laughed out loud at this one.
Our competition has done both of those! The worst is the guy that buys equipment from the other shop and then sends me a message on Facebook looking for tips.
They do that as well.
Check
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Laughed out loud at this one.