A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Ben Gingerich

Sophomore
Oct 19, 2012
188
0
16
Warner Robins Ga
Sorry for the small book.
On Saturday i did a small outdoor blue-grass event for a regional company i work for all the time. I pick up the gear from them i need and head to the cemetery the event is in. Its raining when i get there so I wait it out and start unloading and setting up about 1245, sound check is not until 3 so no problem.

I call the Certified Electrician from the regional company to wire the generator (as their insurance requires) and he comes and hooks it up, gives the all clear and says the powers live and good to go, and he leaves.

I get everything up, lines checked, power run for the backline that has not shown up yet, but we lose power. I unplug everything from the distro reset the breaker on the generator and grab my meter to check it, 130v at an outlet on the distro so i drop the voltage a little and test again. I don’t think any more of it, at that time the backline shows up and starts plugin in and then it starts pouring rain. I kill the power and get everything I can tarped and mic’s and mains down and the console in the trailer.

Again I wait for the rain to pass and by the time it does, its 4:15pm we are way passed sound check and the promoter is there saying the show will go on, i let the company that hired me know.

We clean up the water on stage and change out the power blocks to dry ones, we start up the generator and start sending power to everything and we have NOTHING at the furman for the digital snake, no speakers no subs and only 1 guitar amp on the backline. I start to try and figure out why, and pick up a power block some of the backline is plugged into and i get shocked, one of those good ones that makes you wonder if this job is really worth it.

I than turn off the breakers on the distro, and go with my meter to look at the generator and i have 280v on one phase and 68v on another and 118v on another and they are all fluctuating.
Then i realize that the neutral and ground are not hooked up in the generator! I quickly shut off the generator and call the owner of the company. I take pictures to prove it, then fix the issue only to find out the only thing that still works is the Allen & heath qu16 and d-snake and 2 of the Meyers wedges. We have no mains and no other monitors, I have 2 of my zlx 12p in the trailer I throw on polls and use the 2 Meyer wedges on stage.

So in the end the audience & promoter were at least satisfied, but the 1st band was upset and let everyone know because they only had 2 monitors and it took a while to get everything sorted out, the backline guy says he’s going to sue for some of his blown gear. I have a blown furman (but it saved my console and snake) 4 PRX 618xlf that won’t even power on, and the regional company has 2 JBL SRX 715 and 4 Meyer UM-1p with the same problem.

I think their insurance is going to cover it all, if not I will try with mine, but it still made for a long wet day.
Then it rained during tear down.

End of the story is, make sure you have insurance and check the electrical even if someone hire's a “Certified Electrician” for you.

What would you have done differently?
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Sorry your weekend sucked.

I learned long ago never to assume that any generator has neutral bonded to ground. Most industries that use portable generators don't need the neutral and never worry about it, so the generator suppliers don't think about it either.

I also watch electricians like a hawk. For me ability to pull THHN through new construction doesn't qualify a person to tie in temporary distribution systems to temporary power sources. I was lucky enough to watch a licensed electrician tie the blue phase into the ground lug once. That was all the warning I needed.
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Always meter power by loading ONE leg at a time and checking voltage on each leg. A thrift-store resistance space heater, toaster, waffle iron, PAR 64 light... something that pulls 1000w or more.

With a floating (or missing) neutral the voltages will read correctly in the absence of load or if the load is equally balanced across all legs. The test I propose will present an unbalanced load and if you have a floating/missing neutral, you'll see the voltage rise on the unloaded legs and the voltage will drop on the loaded leg.
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Sorry your weekend sucked.

I learned long ago never to assume that any generator has neutral bonded to ground. Most industries that use portable generators don't need the neutral and never worry about it, so the generator suppliers don't think about it either.

I also watch electricians like a hawk. For me ability to pull THHN through new construction doesn't qualify a person to tie in temporary distribution systems to temporary power sources. I was lucky enough to watch a licensed electrician tie the blue phase into the ground lug once. That was all the warning I needed.

Bonded? The neutral wire wasn't even connected... my guess is the "electrician" got a phone call or other distraction, came back and fired up the genny and used the control panel meter to verify voltage. But that's just a guess.

And I'm with you about watching electricians like a hawk watches rabbits...
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

I get everything up, lines checked, power run for the backline that has not shown up yet, but we lose power. I unplug everything from the distro reset the breaker on the generator and grab my meter to check it, 130v at an outlet on the distro so i drop the voltage a little and test again.

I than turn off the breakers on the distro, and go with my meter to look at the generator and i have 280v on one phase and 68v on another and 118v on another and they are all fluctuating.
Then i realize that the neutral and ground are not hooked up in the generator!

You sure about those voltages? Because those voltages aren't possible is a 120/208V system even with the neutral disconnected.
 
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Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

I get everything up, lines checked, power run for the backline that has not shown up yet, but we lose power. I unplug everything from the distro reset the breaker on the generator and grab my meter to check it, 130v at an outlet on the distro so i drop the voltage a little and test again.

I than turn off the breakers on the distro, and go with my meter to look at the generator and i have 280v on one phase and 68v on another and 118v on another and they are all fluctuating.
Then i realize that the neutral and ground are not hooked up in the generator!
/QUOTE]

You sure about those voltages? Because those voltages aren't possible is a 120/208V system even with the neutral disconnected.

You are right Sir, i fat fingered that on my cell phone it should be approx 180 not 280.
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

.......
I call the Certified Electrician from the regional company to wire the generator (as their insurance requires) and he comes and hooks it up, gives the all clear and says the powers live and good to go, and he leaves.

What would you have done differently?

I don't let the "electrician" leave until everything is metered with BOTH of us there...metered and triple checked. The guy that left will kill someone sooner or later. If we're lucky, it will be him...
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

In all honesty, the license given to some 'electricians' is worth less than the roll of toilet paper found in the port-o-potty on site. I'm sure we all have horror stories about some of them. Whenever I'm working with a tie in, I visually inspect the connections that were made. Most of the time, the electrician is fine with the inspection. If I ever do a tie in, I try to get someone else to inspect it as well, just in case. Yes, there have been times where I've made a mistake and having a second set of eyes look at it caught the error. It happens.
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

I had the same sort of thing happen a couple of decades ago at a art festival on one of the stages.

The "certified electrician" put in a temp box. We metered 120V on both legs before plugging anything in.

But when when we started running "check music" we lost EVERYTHING! Smoke coming out of most of the gear.

When we opened the box (which we should not have to do since a "real electrician" had done the work) we found the neutral just sitting in the lug-and never tightened down.

As soon as current started to flow-it arched and isolated itself-which sent the voltage swinging all over the place.

Not counting all the failed gear (mixer-all processing etc), it cost me 10K in legal costs for an "incident" that happened on stage-but we won't go into that-------
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Hmm. The Extech site says the price is $199 for the CT70 but when I look for prices from various suppliers I see prices well over $200. Am I missing something?
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

As far as I can tell, that price on Amazon ($173) is based on the 20% discount special going on right now. I might try to beat the SF.net rush and order one but I'm curious about why the actual selling prices would be higher than the manufacturer's "list price". Seems a bit odd.
 
Re: A rant about the weekend and a bunch of fried gear.

Exactly. In may case the "electrician" did the work the day before and left. Not even on site when we got there.

Needless to say that stage didn't go on that day----------------
At one two day hotel gig, we checked out power while "Sparky" was still there, all good, no problems with the show.

Next day, we come in and turn on our main breaker, all the FOH equipment blinks on and off with the "fizz" sound. Check out the disconnect, one hot and neutral were reversed, resulting in 240 volts on half the 120v outlets.

Fortunately, we found the electrician's log showed he had disconnected the power the night before, thinking we were loading out in the morning, then reconnected when he checked the schedule again. The log made it a clear case he screwed up, the hotel paid for damages, which were fortunately few, most of the FOH gear just needed fuses replaced. Required replacing all the FOH gear before the gig though...

Art