Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

I installed a used Mackie 1400i in a local club for subs (four ohm use), it had been in a previous club for like 10 years (with the bar goo to prove it), and has been in the "new" club for 6 more years.
Never needed any repairs, sounds good even with moderate clipping, driving 4) 15"s (on a big-ass BR) keeping up with four center clustered Mackie SRM450s.
I had to outboard the SRM450 amps and put a big fan on them to keep them from thermalling out, but the 1400i never had heat issues.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

No... RMX 2450 is more efficient amp topology (Class G/H vs Mackie class A/B), and 2450 is a bunch more power. So more bang for weight, bang for power draw, and bang for buck all else equal. Mackie may be silly cheap now because they're old and obsolete, but old and obsolete is not the best credentials for power amps. I guess the Mackie M1400 may be comparable to smaller RMX models (did they make a 1500?).

Mackie did have a kick ass advertising campaign where they even came up with a special name for their ho-hum heat sink alignment. Keep in mind I am a little inclined to be snarky about it because I had to compete against all those advertising dollars, and I know a little about actual amp design. :) One of my later patents at Peavey was for an amp heat sink design that actually did something useful.

JR
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

No... RMX 2450 is more efficient amp topology (Class G/H vs Mackie class A/B), and 2450 is a bunch more power. So more bang for weight, bang for power draw, and bang for buck all else equal. Mackie may be silly cheap now because they're old and obsolete, but old and obsolete is not the best credentials for power amps. I guess the Mackie M1400 may be comparable to smaller RMX models (did they make a 1500?).

Mackie did have a kick ass advertising campaign where they even came up with a special name for their ho-hum heat sink alignment. Keep in mind I am a little inclined to be snarky about it because I had to compete against all those advertising dollars, and I know a little about actual amp design. :) One of my later patents at Peavey was for an amp heat sink design that actually did something useful.

JR

lol...

I don't really care how they compare power-wise. Only really interested in if they will shit the bed on me on a regular basis. A couple hundred watts per channel is fine for what I want them for, and honestly the guy's asking 150 bucks a piece for these amps. And since I need some amps......
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

My experience has always been good. I had some at a church youth group install, They had been kicked, hit with balls and full of dust. The only issue I ever had was that the on off switch failed on one, I wired in a new one. For $150 bucks if they are in good shape id probably bite at them. Clean them out and make sure to check those ribbon cables like in numerous other Mackie products.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

I own five of the 1400i amps. I work in 115 degree weather. All of them had the ribbon cables replaced under warranty....you do remember the ribbon cable issues cir a 1999 approx. don't you.

All that being said,

I use them stereo at 8 ohms and occasionally at 4 ohms.
I use then mono bridged at 8 ohms and occasionally at 4 ohms.

I have never had one thermal except one time in an indoor venue with no A.C. It was 110 outside, probably 120 inside the steel building we were in. Poor ventilation in our tech area. Bridged into a very low 4 ohm load, pushed to the max on sub duty for an EDM show. Put a box fan in front of it and it came back on within a couple minutes and stayed on the rest of the night.

I have never had a failure of one.

I use them almost every single week for Texas headphones. One run stereo at 8 ohms for a pair of TCS TM112 and two others run mono bridged at 8 ohms, each powering a TCS 1800 sub. These are the monitors for the EDM DJs, gets very loud, run into limiters for hours on end in 90 - 110 degree weather.

So ignore the biases that some may have, strictly looking at them from a performance point view, they work.

Later on, Mackie came out with a newer line of amps that didn't fair quite so well as the originals. I wouldn't buy them if they are the newer versions from about five years ago.

I would put them is the same quality league as the RMX amps. A little less powerful than the 1850hd.

Now, I also had a Mackie 1200 amp that I liked even more, even though it was less powerful. That amp finally died and was not worth fixing. Took a big drop and had a circuit board crack and broke several traces. That was earlier this year. That amp had been bullet proof since about 1998. Or so. If you buy them, keep in mind, they are disposable.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

lol...

I don't really care how they compare power-wise. Only really interested in if they will shit the bed on me on a regular basis. A couple hundred watts per channel is fine for what I want them for, and honestly the guy's asking 150 bucks a piece for these amps. And since I need some amps......

Class A/B was a pretty mature amp technology even when these were brand new, but the M1200 was Mackie's first power amp. The 1400 is their second generation version of that model so the later design should have all the first pass mistakes and/or bugs worked out. They were pretty early to use plastic power devices in a professional(?) power amp, while plastic had been used successfully in consumer amps for years. Since then, metal power devices are now pretty much obsolete and plastic power devices are now a non-issue. I didn't remember that these were involved in a ribbon cable manufacturing issue or not, so perhaps worth checking or being aware of. Relatively heavy for the modest power output, so I'd be happier putting them in a budget install that humping them around for live SR. There were plenty of these sold so I don't know what a fair street price for them is now.

FWIW the QSC 1450 which is the comparable model for power point uses similar technology to the M-1400 so will not have the technology advantage that I was talkign about and that the 2450 does. The street price looks a little higher for the 1450 but that is probably because they're newer and still in production (?).

JR

PS: Damn right I'm biased, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.. :) I have no motive to pimp for QSC that I also competed against, other than that the bigger QSC RMX is a better technology amp. Between the M-1400 and RMX-1450 flip a coin because they are probably more similar than different. FWIW the PV version at that power point, also class AB used my heat sink patent, so of course it would be SUPERIOR. :) :). While I feel bad about even mentioning this, another consideration for China haters, the Mackie M1400 was made in Woodinville, the QSC RMX was the first high volume US amp sourced from China (Peavey model I mentioned also made in China).
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

The first NEW amps I ever bought were a Mackie 1200 and then a Mackie 1400. Replaced an old Peavey DECA 1200 that was giving me fits. If I recall correctly, between the 1400 and the 1400i was the 1400i used 1/4" connectors instead of Speakons, and didn't have handles on the front. I sold off the 1200 about 10 years after i got it, but kept the 1400 as a spare amp as needed. Did have to send in the unit once for service for the ribbon cable issue. Painless repair, great service. Eventually one show out in the sun, the sound got all distorted and it quit. It sat around for a while, and finally traded it to a buddy of mine for some work he did. He likes fixing electronics, so it was a good project. Well, all that was wrong was a fuse inside, and the amp is still plugging along today.

The one thing I didn't like about the amps is that their air intake was on the front, and output was on the sides of the amp. This would result in some toasty warm amp racks, as the heat would build up inside. In an install situation, sometimes this could be desirable, if the rack is designed for that, but in my case it was a problem I had to deal with.

And of course, that was back in the day when Mackie was fun, and their manuals were some of the most entertaining to read ever. http://www.mackie.com/pdf/m1400_m1400i_om.pdf Wonder if any company would have the balls to release a manual like that today. The lawyers would probably be all over it.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

JR, the Mackie 1400s definitely had ribbon cable issues. Mine were all taken care of under warranty. The ribbon cables did not fit perfectly and you would get almost no output until you slammed it as loud as you could, then it would somehow make a crappy connection for a while until it cooled down or wiggled free then you had to slam them again. Once the ribbon cables were replaced these were great amps.

As for the weight to output ratio....it sucks. I pulled a ham string lifting a rack full of them. Bought a ramp two days later. Not as strong as I used to be.

With regards to cooling, I don't think the heat sink is an issue so much as the vents blowing out the sides. Keep the sides clear!

These have proved to be great utility amps for me. Great ROI.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

JR, the Mackie 1400s definitely had ribbon cable issues. Mine were all taken care of under warranty. The ribbon cables did not fit perfectly and you would get almost no output until you slammed it as loud as you could, then it would somehow make a crappy connection for a while until it cooled down or wiggled free then you had to slam them again. Once the ribbon cables were replaced these were great amps.
Ribbon cables are widely used across several industries, when properly executed they are adequate.
As for the weight to output ratio....it sucks. I pulled a ham string lifting a rack full of them. Bought a ramp two days later. Not as strong as I used to be.
Typical for class A/B That is about the upper practical limit for class AB power. The Peavey CS1200 was a back breaker. More power than that you will only see class G/H or class D.
With regards to cooling, I don't think the heat sink is an issue so much as the vents blowing out the sides. Keep the sides clear!
That was their way to finesse the front-to-back or back-to-front air flow question... actually I don't think they even knew it was a question. :)

I am overly critical of this thermal design for the simple reason that they ran full page ads with pretty cut-away drawing bragging about how superior it was to the state of the art. They even came up with a cute name for it (T something)... Sorry guys but the thing they claimed it did better (thermal gradient between power devices) was no better than any other common symmetrical heat sink design because the middle devices received cooler forced air than the end devices that received the same air after it was heated by devices upstream, so the outer end devices ran measurably hotter than the middle devices. This is not a design flaw per se, or any worse than many other similar designs, but most companies don't spend that much money bragging that they improved something that they didn't really.

Serious amp designers use techniques like longer heat sink fins for the later hotter positions to equalize the heat transfer, I actually got a patent for another different way to alter the heat transfer from cold to hot end but i won't bore you with thermal design esoterica, my point is the M-1200 was hyped as improved technology when it wasn't, but they had a willing audience of kool-aid drinkers.

These have proved to be great utility amps for me. Great ROI.

Certainly adequate as long as you don't have to lift them or drop one on your foot... :)


JR
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

The first NEW amps I ever bought were a Mackie 1200 and then a Mackie 1400. Replaced an old Peavey DECA 1200 that was giving me fits.
I hope the DECA didn't catch fire on you... :)

JR
If I recall correctly, between the 1400 and the 1400i was the 1400i used 1/4" connectors instead of Speakons, and didn't have handles on the front. I sold off the 1200 about 10 years after i got it, but kept the 1400 as a spare amp as needed. Did have to send in the unit once for service for the ribbon cable issue. Painless repair, great service. Eventually one show out in the sun, the sound got all distorted and it quit. It sat around for a while, and finally traded it to a buddy of mine for some work he did. He likes fixing electronics, so it was a good project. Well, all that was wrong was a fuse inside, and the amp is still plugging along today.

The one thing I didn't like about the amps is that their air intake was on the front, and output was on the sides of the amp. This would result in some toasty warm amp racks, as the heat would build up inside. In an install situation, sometimes this could be desirable, if the rack is designed for that, but in my case it was a problem I had to deal with.

And of course, that was back in the day when Mackie was fun, and their manuals were some of the most entertaining to read ever. http://www.mackie.com/pdf/m1400_m1400i_om.pdf Wonder if any company would have the balls to release a manual like that today. The lawyers would probably be all over it.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

I had a bunch of them, few ribbon cable failures, a on off switch, and they were terrible on subs. Other then that they kept on working fine. $150 seems a little high for the price though.
Sold them to some friends a long time ago, they use them on monitors and are still going.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

I've got a couple of racks of the 1400i and the 2600 amps. Other than a cable on one of the 2600s, which Ryan walked me through the repair on (thanks again!), they refuse to die. My intention was to replace them as soon as they inevitably (according almost every online resource) started catastrophically failing. But they're still working after all these years. Would I buy them now? As used light duty spares with back ups, if the price was right, maybe. There are much better, electrically economical options out there these days though.

Added: I purchased most of my amps new and know exactly where they've been and how they've been treated and transported. This probably has a lot to do with my experiences in their longevity. The few used amps I've purchased used have been in impeccable shape and usually came from clean fixed installations.
 
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Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

Certainly adequate as long as you don't have to lift them or drop one on your foot... :)

JR
JR,

I'd rather have the 36 pound Mackie M1400i drop on my foot than one of the other club "survivors" in the same rack, a Peavey CS 800 weighing in at 45 pounds.

Art
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

JR,

I'd rather have the 36 pound Mackie M1400i drop on my foot than one of the other club "survivors" in the same rack, a Peavey CS 800 weighing in at 45 pounds.

Art
I'd rather not drop either on mine or anyone's foot.

As I mentioned the CS1200 also class AB, was even more of a back breaker (60 something pounds IIRC)... I hated having to hump them around a couple times a year for trade show demos. I can't imagine using them in portable systems requiring regular set up and tear down.

Kids today may not appreciate how good they have it. :)

JR

PS: I recall the CS800S with the switching power supply instead of heavy iron transformer was a big improvement, but nothing like new generation class D amps.
 
Re: Mackie m1400 amps. Any good? Reliable?

They work. They are heavy. Had some in a bi-amped monitor rig many years ago and never had any problems.

If I were 30 years younger I wouldn't give shit what stuff weighed... but I'm edging closer to another decade and I *really* like stuff I can pick up by myself. The rest? That's what stage hands are for...

If Dick Rees lived somewhere that was warm more than 45 days a year, I'd go form Geezer Audio Services with him... /satire