McCauley M421 Quad 21" Subwoofer

Re: More McCauley M421 Measurements

The major differences can be found in the time domain, HF polar response and higher SPL's young grasshopper. :)

Hey Langston,

HF polar response is a HF phenomenon, as is likely any time domain unrest, which I purposefully excluded from my statement. I rarely measure beyond 130dB, as well!

I think for general TF measurement use an $80 mic can be nearly as good as a much more expensive mic for even a relatively advanced user. As long as they don't get it very hot (since the diaphragms are usually plastic), and as long as they know how to orient it towards the sound source (usually perpendicular, i.e. not pointing at the speaker, is the right way) it will be effectively as good even above 2kHz, often beyond 16kHz. Any HF droop inherent in the mic can be compensated by ear to taste, big dips and peaks will still show up just fine. Of course, many mid-priced mics can be purchased with calibration curves, or you may be able to have yours calibrated for a not unreasonable fee.

Expensive microphones can be trusted more, but once you've got $800 into a mic you may not want to stick it out in the bleachers and not think about it for half an hour... I only break out my really pricey mic to check my other mics against. If I need to know HF level accurately I go one level cheaper, and since I rarely need to know the exact level at very high frequencies I use my $100 mic for almost everything.

--Bennett "Already trashed one $600 capsule on my moderately expensive mic" Prescott
 
Re: More McCauley M421 Measurements

ANother big difference in mic quality is the consistancy of the mics-especially up high.

I used to use some inexpensive mics (not the Behringers) that had a pretty consistant response. However the levels were a bit off (by a couple of dB. This did not both me as I would always calibrate the mics to the same level before doing a measurement session.

Awhile back I replaced those mics with Earthworks. WOW. The levels are dead nuts on, and the response just lays on top of each other. Almost scary.

But even with the more matched response, I seriously doubt that the overall eq of the system would be any different with the 2 mics-at least enough to be noticed. I don't chase every little bump in the response like some people (until they move the mics).

But it sure is nice to use mics that all "match up". And no, I did not get a matched set. Just 10 random mics.

It just nice to use good quality tools.
 
Re: More McCauley M421 Measurements

That 60Hz bump looks familiar, while you lot were running about resetting breakers and putting lightbulbs back in, I had set up my new Audix mics that I'd just got from Jamie and was running SMAART in spectragraph mode and there was a big red line around the 6oHz mark. Now at the time I thought it was either a room mode or mains hum but now I'm not so sure.
My take on these sort of speakers is use them in suitable places and I'm sure they'll do well, for these monsters outdoors or some enormodrome IMO is where they should be, not some small club or other. I think thing about the basic processing specified is a bit of an error too, it is quite easy nowadays to do measurements and use affordable processing to sort out issues so why not do it? I'm quite sure that with some thought and electronics used appropriatly most of the issues noted could be sorted out, any takers? G
 
Re: McCauley M421 Quad 21" Subwoofer

Friends,

Forgive me if I haven’t been active on this forum, I’m starting to get a bit overwhelmed by the various internet forums I’ve become associated with.

As many of you know, I’m a regular user of McCauley products, with some pretty good results. When I’m not happy with something, you can bet I say/do something. I do have a set of cabinets with custom horns I had made.

So don’t assume I’m gonna automatically go to bat for McCauley.

When dealing with pro speakers of this level, it’s never wise to assume the manufacturers specs/claims to be dead on. You audition a speaker. You add the factory recommended EQ. You test and see it’s response. You add some EQ of your own.

I don’t think there’s a pro speaker on the market that’s dead nuts on what it’s maker says it’ll do. Self powered speakers would be the exception as they're usually thoroughly tweaked by it's maker.

Example: The widely used JBL SRX728. JBL says it’ll do 33Hz at -3db. Compared to what? At 33Hz, it’s down 8db from what it does at 50Hz.

Regardless of what any cabinet is and what it’s maker says it will do, us here in the business of “pro sound and production” will test a cabinet with some level of precision and add in our own flavor of equalization to suit our needs and tastes. This speaker is certainly not the first one to not exactly match what it’s maker’s specifications say it will do. Nor will it be the last.

My take on the McCauley M421: As it has this peak at 65Hz or so, obviously it’s a result of it being partially a horn loaded sub. As it easily goes down to 30Hz real loud without EQ boost, it is a substantial subwoofer. Looking at my friend Mr. Prescott’s un-equalized response in post number seven, I’ve extrapolated at 25Hz it’s down about 7db from it’s output at 31.5 Hz. If you REALLY need sub energy down that low, give it about a 6db boost, HPF it no higher than 20Hz and you should be good to go. If you hate that punchy horn hit, cut a bit centered around 65Hz.

Now with this EQ setup and the sheer power capabilities of this cabinet, how will it perform? Can you honestly say there’s ANY other cabinet that’ll do what this one does?

This is certainly not a cabinet I could use in my productions. If I owned a huge rig and often did events on the level of Madison Square Garden, I would own and have use for these subs. I know there are several touring level companies that are using them with great success.
 
Re: Processing and voicing

Bennett Prescott said:
The drivers are arranged isobarically, and then coupled to an "FEA optimized acoustic transformer", or a horn to you and me.
Bennett Prescott said:
This is the only isobaric horn loaded design I am aware of, and the fact that both sides of the radiator drive the air makes them a very interesting design as well.

So, what is this design? It seems like a Trapped Horn™ with the drivers isobarik. Anybody have any drawerings of the inside construction?

Daniel,
The customers purchasing this class of product are going to have enough dsp available to make both the in-band and out of band corrections.

Bennett didn't have enough dsp to do the recommended 48/oct processing. What kind of customer is he? :roll: But, to your point, I do wonder if the manufacturer's reason for the sharp slope couldn't be solved with the out of band snips that have been suggested. Therefore the super sharp slope could be turned into a more reasonable slope. I think this is part of your point...

In my personal case, McCauley's decision to leave a 6dB+ response anomaly right in the middle of the passband for this particular low frequency speaker virtually guarantees that I won't consider the remainder of the McCauley product line for other projects.

Here's another thought, what if the manufacturer expects the pro user to prod and probe and roll their own processing anyway (disregarding the specified recommendations)? Then the raw response should be tailored for the most impressive demo to the unsophisticated buyer, no? That bump seems like it could make the box quite impressive for the unrefined ear right out of the box. Seems like a good sale/engineering combo to me.?

For new products to be added to my personal list, they should also be accompanied with reasonable processing.

Do you mean "reasonable processing suggestions" or, do you want speakers that actually come with dsp?

-drew
 
Re: McCauley M421 Quad 21" Subwoofer

Example: The widely used JBL SRX728. JBL says it’ll do 33Hz at -3db. Compared to what? At 33Hz, it’s down 8db from what it does at 50Hz.


Now with this EQ setup and the sheer power capabilities of this cabinet, how will it perform? Can you honestly say there’s ANY other cabinet that’ll do what this one does?

Paul,

While I don't doubt the M421 is a good sub, McCauley suffers from the same issue you point out in your post-they don't relate the -3db to any reference.
Also, they want to annoy us with a 4m ground plane reference.
They also don't publish any response/impedance/phase curves, so I honestly don't know if this cabinet will do as it says. Has Pat Brown measured one possibly?

Ivan, weren't you going to get a bunch of subs together and measure them under the same conditions-assuming you will get some free time?

Best regards,

John
 
Re: McCauley M421 Quad 21" Subwoofer

OK folks, I finally have some flight hours with these cabinets.

It was a system setup in the rear of The Brooklyn Museum for a rather large Caribbean music event that’ll run through the weekend. The main system consisted of McCauley MLA6 and MLA3 line arrays with CSM88 subs.

For demonstration purpose, the M421 cabinets were setup in a center cluster of four cabinets powered by four Lab.Gruppen PLM 14000 amplifiers.

The cabinets went very loud with big bass. They were clean and accurate. As I had to come and go during the days the cabinets were in use, I did not see any frequency sweeps. One other company owner who came to audition the cabinets brought his own meter and measured 128db A weighted at 80 feet with just these subs on. During all of this testing, not once did a breaker trip.

Their setup and use was overseen by Ryan McCauley of McCauley Sound. The sound company, from Florida, was very impressed with the cabinets as was a sound company Ryan visited upstate New York prior to this event. Both these companies will be ordering M421's for their rental stock.

What’s my take on these subs? While I don’t have certified test data and graphs, I can attest they do go pretty darn low in frequency and achieve monstrous high sound levels. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced the amount of air movement that these things pushed. It would certainly take a lot of cabinets to produce what these things do. I did go into this demo a little biased from what was stated earlier in this thread but I was happily surprised that the cabinets worked and sounded very good without issue. Everybody else visiting and working the event were pretty blown away.
 
Re: McCauley M421 Quad 21" Subwoofer

Paul,

I was sorry I couldn't make it for that, I was hoping to meet Ryan and hear some more McCauley products as well. Unfortunately traffic getting out of eastern Long Island on Friday was so miserable I ran out of extra time.