Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

R

Richard Stringer

Sophomore
Jan 13, 2011
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16
Boston, Lincolnshire, UK
I'm getting myself a power conditioner in january, a Furman PL-Plus CE below :

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE

I'm running two JBL MPA750 amps one bridged per SRX728S sub, a Yamaha P7000S amp running two JBL MRX515 cabs for dj monitors, one Stanton SA.3 dj mixer, one JBL MPX1200 running two Peavey UL215H cabs (USA equivilent is basiacally the SP4 cabs), two dmx scanner lights, one Martin Magnum 1200 fog machine, two Technics SL1210 turntables and a Dbx Driverack. Now i'm wanting to know, I know I don't plug the amplifiers into the power conditioner, but do I plug everything else into it? Or do I plug just the audio equipment and not the lighting? Oh and how long can power cables be without causing a problem? Say if I ran 20ft cables from the lighting to the Furman conditioner and other cables from the dj mixer and turntables shorter than that, would I experience any problems?
 
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Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
I'm getting myself a power conditioner in january, a Furman PL-Plus CE below :

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PLUSCE

I'm running two JBL MPA750 amps one bridged per SRX728S sub, a Yamaha P7000S amp running two JBL MRX515 cabs for dj monitors, one Stanton SA.3 dj mixer, one JBL MPX1200 running two Peavey UL215H cabs (USA equivilent is basiacally the SP4 cabs), two dmx scanner lights, one Martin Magnum 1200 fog machine, two Technics SL1210 turntables and a Dbx Driverack. Now i'm wanting to know, I know I don't plug the amplifiers into the power conditioner, but do I plug everything else into it? Or do I plug just the audio equipment and not the lighting? Oh and how long can power cables be without causing a problem? Say if I ran 20ft cables from the lighting to the Furman conditioner and other cables from the dj mixer and turntables shorter than that, would I experience any problems?
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What are you wanting/thinking/expecting the power conditioner to actually do?

It may not be anything at all like what you are thinking. Or then again it may be.

The term "conditioner" is more of a marketing term than anything else.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Google is your friend - both here and on PSW. Power conditioners don't "condition" much - they are expensive power strips, sometimes with pretty lights. From your other posts it seems that your budget is pretty tight. Skip the expensive power strip and put your money into a real amp/processor, etc.

To answer more specifically - don't bother putting any heavy power stuff on a conditioner like this - no amps, no lighting, etc.

Cable length is related to current draw and wire gauge, and the negative result of doing this inadequately is voitage sag, which may affect your max sound output, or in extreme cases maybe cause your gear to brown out and quit, but you're generally not going to have any problems with 20' cables of appropriate gauge for the current demands, and good source circuits to start with.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Hey Richard,

I'm curious why you even need a power conditioner. What problem do you have that it's expected to solve?

Generally amps are fairly tolerant of fluctuating input power. Standard lighting is bordering on impervious unless you are talking lightning strikes. Thus, you should probably only plug the DJ and audio equipment into the conditioner.

There are charts that show voltage drop per length of cable for any given gauge wiring. Look one up and see if the voltage drop you are going to experience is still within your equipment's tolerances.

Ciao
Simon
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

I just wanted to make sure I protect my equipment from voltage spikes, I wasn't expecting the sound quality to be any better by using a power conditioner. Thanks guys though, if I don't need voltage spike protection then that's cool. I thought about it because the power supply at the venue, a rock pub/venue, (very small venue at that, holds about 200 people maximum) doesn't have a very clean power supply, you always hear hums and buzzes in the venue. Although it IS a rock venue so maybe that might be to do with guitar amplifiers and equipment like that i'm not sure. And yeah thanks for the cable length advice, i'll keep cable length of all my equipment to 6 feet maximum and the overall cable length from equipment to the wall to no more than 15 feet, is it ok to use 2.5mm which i'm sure is 12awg mains cable for the 6-way trailing mains distribution, this is what i'm using :

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/khxc/media/gbu0/prodsm/429847.jpg

As long as the cable for that trailing socket is 12awg I should be fine right? My JBL MPA750 amps have pretty damn thick power cable on, what guage should I use for extension sockets for them? Would 8awg or 10awg be ok? That's about 4.0mm. Or should I try and plug them in directly to the wall, each with it's own socket? I'm bridging them, one per sub.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
I just wanted to make sure I protect my equipment from voltage spikes, I wasn't expecting the sound quality to be any better by using a power conditioner. Thanks guys though, if I don't need voltage spike protection then that's cool. I thought about it because the power supply at the venue, a rock pub/venue, (very small venue at that, holds about 200 people maximum) doesn't have a very clean power supply, you always hear hums and buzzes in the venue. Although it IS a rock venue so maybe that might be to do with guitar amplifiers and equipment like that i'm not sure. And yeah thanks for the cable length advice, i'll keep cable length of all my equipment to 6 feet maximum and the overall cable length from equipment to the wall to no more than 15 feet, is it ok to use 2.5mm which i'm sure is 12awg mains cable for the 6-way trailing mains distribution, this is what i'm using :

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/khxc/media/gbu0/prodsm/429847.jpg

As long as the cable for that trailing socket is 12awg I should be fine right? My JBL MPA750 amps have pretty damn thick power cable on, what guage should I use for extension sockets for them? Would 8awg or 10awg be ok? That's about 4.0mm. Or should I try and plug them in directly to the wall, each with it's own socket? I'm bridging them, one per sub.
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What you need is not "power conditioning", but voltage regulation. A line regulator by Furman or other companies will provide you with a regulated, spikeless voltage for your gear that needs protection. A UPS may also perform this function but is generally a bulkier unit. I use a Furman AR-1215 and am quite happy as I have not lost a single piece of gear since I started using it. Before that I had lost gear to brown or questionable power.......
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Thanks guys i'll lok into that. Oh what about the power cord extension cables from the amplifiers to the wall, do they need to be the same thickness cable as what is on the amplifier power cables?
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
I thought about it because the power supply at the venue, doesn't have a very clean power supply, you always hear hums and buzzes in the venue. .
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How do you know the power is not "clean?

The problem is more likely bad/poor grounding or the fact that a lot of the acts you hear there simply have no idea what they are doing and their systems hum/buzz everywhere.

The power does not get "unclean" once it enters a particular facitlity (however see below).

That is a term that gets thrown around a lot, and in a lot of cases it is not the powers fault.

Unless you have looked at the AC line with an oscope, you really have no idea how clean or unclean it may be.

However there are cases in which the various equipment (non audio) in use in the facility will cause all sorts of hash on the line. Using good gear with proper grounding within your own system is the solution to that. Yes there are other solutions, but they will cost more than your system.

The Furman is not going to be able to anything about that at all.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Ivan....

I recommend the Furman (as I stated fairly clearly in my post) to guard against voltage sags/brown power. That's what they're meant to do and they do it. I think they accomplish what people expect from a "power conditioner" for protecting their gear, but as you so rightly note they do not solve things that are properly addressed by correctly wiring and grounding your own system.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

So voltage regulation would be better than a power conditioner, ok thanks. By the way, I looked at that Furman voltage regulator and from what I can see that one's not available in the UK.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

I did search on Google, but obviously I didn't see that. That's full retail price as far as i'm aware, £1,232, and that doesn't even include 20% vat either, completely way out my budget.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
I did search on Google, but obviously I didn't see that. That's full retail price as far as i'm aware, £1,232, and that doesn't even include 20% vat either, completely way out my budget.
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Gear that works is not cheap.

I gig a gig some 20yrs ago for a large crowd full of musicians. The only thing that saved that gig was the use of a similar regulator at FOH. The power keep dropping down low (80V at times) and the FOH gear (console/effects etc) would have been shutting down, humming, changing programs etc if the power was not steady.

It depends on how important it is to you.

Just don't expect the cheap gear to do the same thing-no matter what it might "imply".
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
I did search on Google, but obviously I didn't see that. That's full retail price as far as i'm aware, £1,232, and that doesn't even include 20% vat either, completely way out my budget.
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So don't worry about it. I'd focus some energy on making sure with good advance work with venues you work in to make sure they have proper and adequate electrical service for you to hook up your system.

It sounds like you aren't experiencing any problems anyway. Spikes and other issues from the electrical company are not all that common, but junk getting on the service as Ivan pointed is far more common. Make sure you have properly sized extension cables(and a larger gauge than needed is certainly better than the other way around), you're signal cabling is all wired properly and in good shape, and hopefully any problems are musicians with lousy rigs.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Dick Rees said:
What you need is not "power conditioning", but voltage regulation. A line regulator by Furman or other companies will provide you with a regulated, spikeless voltage for your gear that needs protection. A UPS may also perform this function but is generally a bulkier unit. I use a Furman AR-1215 and am quite happy as I have not lost a single piece of gear since I started using it. Before that I had lost gear to brown or questionable power.......
Click to expand...

They are great!!!!

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=AR-1215
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

John Halliburton said:
So don't worry about it. I'd focus some energy on making sure with good advance work with venues you work in to make sure they have proper and adequate electrical service for you to hook up your system.

It sounds like you aren't experiencing any problems anyway. Spikes and other issues from the electrical company are not all that common, but junk getting on the service as Ivan pointed is far more common. Make sure you have properly sized extension cables(and a larger gauge than needed is certainly better than the other way around), you're signal cabling is all wired properly and in good shape, and hopefully any problems are musicians with lousy rigs.

Best regards,

John
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What kind of length do you reccomend not going over with regards to power cables? Would cable like this be sufficient for extension cables for the amplifiers to the wall sockets?
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA4TQ3slash50.html

It's 3 core, 4.0mm 35A power cable.
 
Re: Need some advice on a power conditioner please guys

Richard Stringer said:
What kind of length do you reccomend not going over with regards to power cables? Would cable like this be sufficient for extension cables for the amplifiers to the wall sockets?
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CA4TQ3slash50.html

It's 3 core, 4.0mm 35A power cable.
Click to expand...

I believe that particular cable, while it may work, is not quite the proper type-the heat resistant feature is not necessary. I suspect the two largest sizes on this page are more in line with portable cordage needs for sound work:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Flex_Black/index.html


HOWEVER-YOU SHOULD WAIT FOR SOMEONE IN THE UK TO POST WITH THEIR EXPERIENCED RECOMMENDATIONS!

I am not familiar with the requirements over there, and if you're not, you should at least talk with someone at a local electrical supply house, and/or an electrical contractor about types of portable cordage needed in this line of work.

Best regards,

John
 
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