Rcf tts26

Re: Rcf tts26

I could not find any users of this sub. I found a couple on the RCF facebook page and wrote to them but no reply.

I wrote to RCF in Italy and after a few exchanges they were too busy doing global projects and could not help me. I also wrote to RCF USA through their facebook page and never got a reply.

Here is my situation I bought a pair of TTS26 subs as part of the TTL11 system and my NX subs are a lot louder.

So a 1000W double 15 (NXS25 professional line) is a better sub than a 3400W double 15 (TTS26 touring & theater)

When I wrote my original post I did get some PMs telling me that RCF subs are not that good, I agree with them, they are not that good and the support is terrible, they made me go through a firmware upgrade that was already there and there was no difference.

So after owning a very expensive RCF TTL11 / TTS26 system I would not recommend the TTS26 subs to anyone. The columns are very nice and do live up to expectations, but they can only be used with the TTS26 sub because of setup limitations by RCF.

The users I found either had double TTS26 subs or had a TTS36 under the TTS26 sub. In my comparison 1 NXS25 sub will get louder than a TTS26 sub.

Next step for me will be to put up the system for sale unless I get some help from RCF
 
Re: Rcf tts26

If you don't mind the rigging/stands/lack thereof, TTL11A's over some other subs, maybe non-RCF, would probably be your best bet. The 8006's that Silas has are what I would look at (haven't heard them in person yet) if you want to stay RCF. The TTS56A's are good, but really expensive and need plenty of current. Danley TH-118's or DBH-218's are a pretty safe default answer.
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Silas Pradetto said:
I don't know what voltage you have locally, but if the sub current limits its input current and it's set for 240v, it will only have half the current it expects. This would yield a dramatic reduction in peak power.

How many DB difference are we talking between the two?

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Click to expand...

Current is 120v (usually around 117v)

I use a
Brick Wall PW2RAUD 20A Point of Use 2 plug Audiophile (isolated receptacles) Surge protector (uses 15A wall plug and 15A receptacles.) This has 20A electronics for more heavy duty use.

Then to a profesionally built 2 phase electric box

This electric box I have used with no problems for 8 NX subs and 12 NXL23s on one phase and all of my ligths and haze machines on the other phase.

The test was done without measurement, side by side
 
Fernando Lopez said:
Current is 120v (usually around 117v)

I use a
Brick Wall PW2RAUD 20A Point of Use 2 plug Audiophile (isolated receptacles) Surge protector (uses 15A wall plug and 15A receptacles.) This has 20A electronics for more heavy duty use.

Then to a profesionally built 2 phase electric box

This electric box I have used with no problems for 8 NX subs and 12 NXL23s on one phase and all of my ligths and haze machines on the other phase.

The test was done without measurement, side by side
Click to expand...

I think you have your answer.

I'll expand on that. You are running your whole sound rig on one 120V, 20A circuit? With a power conditioner inline?

First, you never want to be using any sort of power conditioning on high-draw things like amplifiers. Wall power is plenty clean unless there is a lightning strike; 'power conditioners' rarely do anything useful other than provide more outlets.

Second, better equipment senses line current and voltage and has the ability to limit their current consumption so they don't trip breakers. Running your whole sound rig like you are guarantees you are pushing that circuit to its limit and the gear is not performing to potential.

Separate all the gear onto different circuits. Put the subs each on their own circuits. Given real input power, I'm sure the better sub will pull ahead, as you would expect. It takes power to make power.

And, there is no '2 phase'. There is split-phase (single phase) power and three-phase power. With three-phase, it is certainly possible to use just two of the three legs, but it is not '2 phase'.

As a note for you: the 8006AS subs I have came with a 20-amp line cord, intending for each sub to have its own ENTIRE 20A circuit.
 
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Re: Rcf tts26

Caleb Dick said:
If you don't mind the rigging/stands/lack thereof, TTL11A's over some other subs, maybe non-RCF, would probably be your best bet. The 8006's that Silas has are what I would look at (haven't heard them in person yet) if you want to stay RCF. The TTS56A's are good, but really expensive and need plenty of current. Danley TH-118's or DBH-218's are a pretty safe default answer.
Click to expand...

Well the thing is the columns will not stand on it´s own so the TTS26 is a must.

I have to do some searching. I never thought I would need more than 8 arrays per side so the NXL23 was ideal for me. This has changed and I am looking at the HDL-20 or the DAS aero 12 with the LX218 subs. The other option is nexo but it will not give me a good return on my investment since I do not do A players.

DAS invited me recently to a 4 hour session that helped me a lot.
Danley has no support or representative here.
RCF I would be on m own again.

Thanks for your help
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Silas Pradetto said:
I think you have your answer.

I'll expand on that. You are running your whole sound rig on one 120V, 20A circuit? With a power conditioner inline?

First, you never want to be using any sort of power conditioning on high-draw things like amplifiers. Wall power is plenty clean unless there is a lightning strike; 'power conditioners' rarely do anything useful other than provide more outlets.

Sorry I did not explain well. My electric box has 2 60 amp 120v lines

I have 2 of the PW2RAUD 20A, one for each sub. The columns each go into one 15a plug (different one).

I do not use a power conditioner for the PA, only for the mixer or CD Players

This setup (electric) is used for 8 NX subs and 12 NX tops with no problem. If I plugged all of that into 20A circuit it would not work.

I also own 4 RCF TT25 tops. When I place one TT25 over 1 NX sub I have a nice sounding set up. When I use 1 TT25 over 2 NX subs I get a great little system for up to 250-300. When I use 1 TT25 over 1 TTS26 I have to use an HPF of 75Hz on the sub!! Why? because with the gain on the sub at minimum and the gain on the top at 50% the TTS26 will limit in red at very low gain from the A&H Zed 10 mixer. This is my problem with the sub, it limits in red really early.

Second, better equipment senses line current and voltage and has the ability to limit their current consumption so they don't trip breakers. Running your whole sound rig like you are guarantees you are pushing that circuit to its limit and the gear is not performing to potential.

Separate all the gear onto different circuits. Put the subs each on their own circuits. Given real input power, I'm sure the better sub will pull ahead, as you would expect. It takes power to make power.

And, there is no '2 phase'. There is split-phase (single phase) power and three-phase power. With three-phase, it is certainly possible to use just two of the three legs, but it is not '2 phase'.

You are correct. It is 3 phase power, I only use 2 of the three legs

As a note for you: the 8006AS subs I have came with a 20-amp line cord, intending for each sub to have its own ENTIRE 20A circuit.
Click to expand...

I answered your comments

thanks for your help

please advise me some more
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Fernando,

I have not replied to this thread, since you and I have not spoken about this recently and I thought that you might get further input from other users. If you want to talk to someone at RCF USA I will provide that contact info to you. I doubt that anyone there monitors FB messages for support issues.

I have run the TTL11A/TTS26A systems on a 120v 20a circuit per side many times, using the Brickwall surge suppressors which have a 15a breaker. Never has the power been inadequate and neither the breaker in the Brickwall unit nor the venue breaker ever tripped with the system being run up to intermittent limiting. If you have a solid power source (MEASURED voltage of 110v +), one dedicated 20a VENUE CIRCUIT PER SIDE should be adequate unless you are running into constant compression or limiting. I would not advise running both sides on a single circuit, although I have run both columns and one sub on a single 20a 120v circuit at small events. You have a disadvantage in Venezuela with the standard voltage being lower than 120v.

Silas, the Brickwall units are sm surge suppressors, which I use and suggested to Fernando because of the fact that the TT columns & subs both contain multiple channels of amplification, dsp and networking and a failure through overvoltage would be very expensive to repair. Cheap insurance, if you will.

I have not had an opportunity to compare the TTS26A side-by-side with the NXS25A, but it would surprise me if given similar filter settings and gain matched that the NX25 would deliver more output than a properly functioning TTS26A. At the first event I used a pair of TT26As they kept me awake all night in my room 7 floors up from the basement ballroom, leading me to reset the low cut the following day.

Fernando, what high and low pass settings are you using on the subs? Are you using the x-over output to the columns? Have you done any basic troubleshooting on the subs to determine if the drivers are all working and not wired out of polarity? Do both TT subs have the same output? When you compared them to the NX did you have them set with similar filters and run both subs into hard limit? The TTS26A does have rms limiting and a compression circuit which will light the limiter light before you reach clipping and hard limit.

Finally, if you determine that the subs DO work as they should and just don't have the output you need, then it is not impossible to fabricate a method to mount the columns on top of a different sub.
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Mike Pyle said:
Fernando,

I have not replied to this thread, since you and I have not spoken about this recently and I thought that you might get further input from other users. If you want to talk to someone at RCF USA I will provide that contact info to you. I doubt that anyone there monitors FB messages for support issues.

I have run the TTL11A/TTS26A systems on a 120v 20a circuit per side many times, using the Brickwall surge suppressors which have a 15a breaker. Never has the power been inadequate and neither the breaker in the Brickwall unit nor the venue breaker ever tripped with the system being run up to intermittent limiting. If you have a solid power source (MEASURED voltage of 110v +), one dedicated 20a VENUE CIRCUIT PER SIDE should be adequate unless you are running into constant compression or limiting. I would not advise running both sides on a single circuit, although I have run both columns and one sub on a single 20a 120v circuit at small events. You have a disadvantage in Venezuela with the standard voltage being lower than 120v.

Silas, the Brickwall units are sm surge suppressors, which I use and suggested to Fernando because of the fact that the TT columns & subs both contain multiple channels of amplification, dsp and networking and a failure through overvoltage would be very expensive to repair. Cheap insurance, if you will.

I have not had an opportunity to compare the TTS26A side-by-side with the NXS25A, but it would surprise me if given similar filter settings and gain matched that the NX25 would deliver more output than a properly functioning TTS26A. At the first event I used a pair of TT26As they kept me awake all night in my room 7 floors up from the basement ballroom, leading me to reset the low cut the following day.

Fernando, what high and low pass settings are you using on the subs? Are you using the x-over output to the columns? Have you done any basic troubleshooting on the subs to determine if the drivers are all working and not wired out of polarity? Do both TT subs have the same output? When you compared them to the NX did you have them set with similar filters and run both subs into hard limit? The TTS26A does have rms limiting and a compression circuit which will light the limiter light before you reach clipping and hard limit.

Finally, if you determine that the subs DO work as they should and just don't have the output you need, then it is not impossible to fabricate a method to mount the columns on top of a different sub.
Click to expand...


I will be in Florida next week, I would love to give them a call, if you could set it up I would appreciate it.

I have measured electricity in this venue and it has been a solid 117v each time ( the 4 times I have used the subs have been in the same venue )

I have tried all 4 combinations of the filters, on RDNet they are just a mouse click away. Yes I am using the X-Over output to either the columns or the TT25s (verified by the RCF representative who helped me on the first install)

I have not done any polarity tests

On the NXS25 it usually turns yellow (the limiter) I have never seen it red
On the TTS26 it goes to red directly at very low gains

I have 6 NXS21 subs which on paper give me 135 dbs each
I have 2 TTS26 subs which on paper give me 140 dbs each

I NX sub will pound harder than 1 TTS26 sub
 
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Re: Rcf tts26

Ok so I Am at MusikMesse and held 2 meetings with the RCF people regarding my subs. They told me that they had the same claim from other customers and that they will be coming out with a new firmware for the sub.

Oscar Mora from RCF will do the process and do a smaart measure on the subs with the new firmware
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Finally. I got a response from RCF

They gave me a new firmware and we measured each sub with smaart before and after applying the firmware

The result is 5 more dbs in each sub

Now the column clips before the sub does.

So it is like having 2 more subs which is what originally RCF told me to do ( get more subs )
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Fernando Lopez said:
Finally. I got a response from RCF

They gave me a new firmware and we measured each sub with smaart before and after applying the firmware

The result is 5 more dbs in each sub

Now the column clips before the sub does.

So it is like having 2 more subs which is what originally RCF told me to do ( get more subs )
Click to expand...

Fernando,

What is the name of that firmware file?

Mike
 
Re: Rcf tts26

Mike Pyle said:
Fernando,

What is the name of that firmware file?

Mike
Click to expand...

You have to get it from them because it comes with RDNet 2.0 which is in beta

The firmware for the subs change once you update your rdnet controller with the new version. The RCF guy told me he would not leave the beta because they were about to release a newer version (more stable).

So you either have to get it from them or wait until they update their webpage

I suggest not to write to their support staff
 
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