Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Bennett Prescott

Just This Guy, You Know?
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Jan 10, 2011
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Wallingford, CT
www.bennettprescott.com
One day I dream of a beautiful home office or dedicated listening / home theater room with 5.1 surround from large format boxes and enough subwoofer to make you lose control of your bowels. For now, however, I live in a little Boston apartment and have a very compact 2.0 system that is rather lacking in the LF. Considering I happen to work for the greatest loudspeaker component manufacturer on planet earth, and that I have never before built a speaker from the ground up, I thought it was time to rectify that situation. I also thought it would be fun to enlist the forum's help and document the process.

bt.jpgMy goal is to build a 2x8" powered subwoofer based on either the 8BG51 or a custom 4-ohm low Fs version (the tradeoff being much higher Vas) of that woofer, spec sheets for both attached. For fun, I would like it to look convincingly like a Clair BT-218.

Other goals:
  1. -3dB at 35Hz or lower (flat to 40Hz)
  2. Output is more or less irrelevant
  3. No port noise
  4. Able to reach max excursion with <1dB port choking
  5. Reasonable WAF

For power, I am trying to decide between two Powersoft plate amps:
  1. D-Cell504 IS Series
  2. DigiMod IS Series
The D-Cell504 IS_p is just enough power. given the expected box tuning I think there is a good chance it will be able to power both 4Ω 8" woofers (1 per amp channel) close to their excursion limits. However, it has a limited DSP, is not networkable, has no AES ins, and is kind of a pain to program since you need a special adapter board. Also I have heard that the hole for the programming ribbon connection whistles, which I'll definitely hear in my little living room.

The Digimod 1500 or 2000 HV IS DSP-4 has plenty of power for either of the woofers, but is about 4x as much money as the D-Cell504. The DSP-4 gives me networking, AES In, a real power limiter (!), and impedance monitoring: all things that will make this sub much more fun for me. The AES is especially nice since I can convert to it straight from the Optical out of my Airport Express and stay digital until Powersoft's converters - which are much better than the ones in my Airport Express and don't force me to make unbalanced signal runs.

So, while I naturally would prefer the DSP-4 (and once you're paying for that DSP the difference in cost between power levels is irrelevant), it takes the cost of the project from "anytime" to "real money". I guess I'll have to think about it.

Box Calculations:
I spent some time in WinISD. It seems I can probably get away with a stiffly built (Ql = 20) 60L box tuned to 35Hz with ports about 10cm in diameter, which will end up being almost 1/3 meter deep. Fortunately I can fake some additional depth on the box just fine. I don't know diddly squat about this part, so maybe I'm missing something critical.
 

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I am dure you might now this but 30-40hz low end really isn't all that low in home theater subwoofer arena. Many of the "boom" boxes at big box stores don't go much lower than that.

Many current soundtracks have content well below that mark (20hz and below sometimes). Not saying you need to reach that mark but might be worth considering at least design the headroom into your plans.

If you want to consider commercial products worth comparing designs with look at Seaton Sound, JTR Speakers, Chase Home Theater? HSU Research, Rythmic Audio, Epik, danley, or SVS sound. These brands are generally considered the best bang for their price in the home theater market. Again just

Of course DIY lets you make it how you want and even greater performance potential.

This looks like a fun project and I look forward to seeing what you do.

Jared
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

First, Bennett has a predisposition to use something in the product line for the company he works for.

Second, in a small room setting, there will be room gain available, so the 35-40hz might be possible with some processing.

Third, it's gonna be tough to get an F3 of 35hz . Low forties is about it, imo. The ability to process the dual 8" design does have limits in room, and even though it may not be an issue, I'd rather have a design that didn't need total dependence on room gain. Overkill is good. ;>)

Bennett,
The cabinet is already pretty large at 60l, so look for a single 10" or 12" with lower fs that will allow you to achieve the desired F3 pre room gain and processing.

It may be tough finding something in the stock B&C catalog in a 10" or 12" that is geared toward home theater subwoofer use. I currently use one of the excellent drivers from Acoustic Elegance in Green Bay-John Janowitz makes some great drivers.

Best regards,

John
 
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Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

OK-this is gonna piss some people off-so I appologize in advance.

I thought that Bennett was pretty clear about what he wanted to use as a driver-what he wanted it to look like-performance objectives and so forth.

So jumping to other layouts/designs that are clearly not what he wants-is kind of useless at this point-At least in my opinion. Unless he is willing redefine his needs.

Now to the crux of the matter. I think it will be pretty hard to get to the target response with that particular driver in a regular dual configuration. It is designed for a higher tuning.

HOWEVER you might consider a isobaric configuration. It will require 4 woofers (but he knows where to get them :)) and can extend the low freq response by making the box "appear" to be twice as large.

The penalties to be paid are twice the driver cost and more weight-neither of which probably are an issue to him.
 
I apologize if I was unclear. I was not saying he should change go design. I was merely commenting that in the world of home theater subwoofering, 30 hz low end isn't exactly stellar. For recorded music it is fine and will probably sound amazing with his knowledge of the drivers and enclosure design.

I have heard many "pro" sound guys think that simply using a "pro" subs in a home theater setting will rock the joint for movies and that simply isn't always true.

Again I am looking forward to following this design and process. I am just saying that if he is expecting to it to work as a true home theater sub, he might want to rethink the design. Who knows, maybe his room is small and this is all he needs.

That's the fun part of DIY home theater, make it fun and try different stuff out. :)
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

I apologize if I was unclear. I was not saying he should change go design. I was merely commenting that in the world of home theater subwoofering, 30 hz low end isn't exactly stellar. For recorded music it is fine and will probably sound amazing with his knowledge of the drivers and enclosure design.

I'm willing to trade the LF extension of soggy-sounding home theater subs for a harder-hitting "pro" type of tone.
-And honestly, I have a feeling that the greater percentage of "home theater" speaker purchases over the last decade would have a hard time getting to 35Hz anyways. (Thinking the ever popular trend of wallmount sound-bars and bose type subs isn't even that good)

Bennett also says he lives in an apartment. Too much sub 20Hz might cause problems with the other tenants as it really tends to carry farther through structures. (I've been on the receiving end of that problem and it wasn't fun when you consider a showbiz sleeping schedule!)

I have heard many "pro" sound guys think that simply using a "pro" subs in a home theater setting will rock the joint for movies and that simply isn't always true.

They are probably not too far off if you take a look at what's behind the screen at your local multiplex. 2" compression drivers, 15" and 18" pro-grade cone drivers is the norm. The modern "sound" of the movies has basically been defined by JBL and Altec, and it's probably what the final soundmix was done on too. :)~:)~:smile:
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Could a small sealed box with a matching LF boost circuit (like Bag-End) be a useable solution too? Maximum SPL isn't the goal here so there should be room to play with when it comes to driver limitations?

I'm by no means knowledgeable in this subject but have heard some of those BagEnd boxes in a small control-room and they did really well yet used what looked like conventional pro drivers.



OK-this is gonna piss some people off-so I appologize in advance.

I thought that Bennett was pretty clear about what he wanted to use as a driver-what he wanted it to look like-performance objectives and so forth.

So jumping to other layouts/designs that are clearly not what he wants-is kind of useless at this point-At least in my opinion. Unless he is willing redefine his needs.

Now to the crux of the matter. I think it will be pretty hard to get to the target response with that particular driver in a regular dual configuration. It is designed for a higher tuning.

HOWEVER you might consider a isobaric configuration. It will require 4 woofers (but he knows where to get them :)) and can extend the low freq response by making the box "appear" to be twice as large.

The penalties to be paid are twice the driver cost and more weight-neither of which probably are an issue to him.
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Thanks, guys, I am well aware that 35Hz is not a low F3 in the home theater world. However, I have certain expectations as to port size and box size that make that a barely achievable goal. I am trying to extend the LF ability of some tops that have a 4" LF driver, so making it to 40 will be a big deal. If I was looking for a bad-ass take no prisoners super cool movie effects LFE sub I wouldn't be using a pair of 8" cones, and I definitely wouldn't be putting it in this apartment!

I also understand well the various kinds of boxes I can build, and it will either be front loaded ported or sealed. My preference is for ported since I'd like to learn more about ports specifically. I don't have the space to place a horn, nor the patience to build it, and I don't want to deal with the HF combing of a tapped horn since I need response to about 200Hz in this case. I'm not a great woodworker so simple is the goal.

I am definitely expecting to make up output with room gain and EQ, at some future point this box might get worked hard but it is unlikely that will happen with these tops so there's plenty of output to throw away. 60L is pretty big for a 2x 8", but I can fit it in the corner under my desk, so it is just acceptable.
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Third, it's gonna be tough to get an F3 of 35hz . Low forties is about it, imo. The ability to process the dual 8" design does have limits in room, and even though it may not be an issue, I'd rather have a design that didn't need total dependence on room gain. Overkill is good. ;>)

Bennett,
The cabinet is already pretty large at 60l, so look for a single 10" or 12" with lower fs that will allow you to achieve the desired F3 pre room gain and processing.

It may be tough finding something in the stock B&C catalog in a 10" or 12" that is geared toward home theater subwoofer use. I currently use one of the excellent drivers from Acoustic Elegance in Green Bay-John Janowitz makes some great drivers.

John, thanks, your practical experience here is very helpful. I'm aiming for -3dB at 35Hz, but frankly if I end up with 40Hz I'll be perfectly happy. The biggest limitation right now seems to just be fitting the size ports I want into the box, since they need to be around 1/3 meter long. I'm hoping if I stuff the box with padding and make it super stiff I'll get it to sound and behave pretty well.

The BG series is basically designed for this sort of thing, and you are correct that the 12BG100 would be much more appropriate. However, then I wouldn't get to have a little subwoofer that looks like a concert dual 18", and that would make it much less fun. There's no way I'm going outside of the B&C catalog, as that would increase my driver cost to a level that would make this project no longer fun, but Acoustic Elegance and PD have great reputations here.
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

nothing better to do Bennet ? :)~:)~:smile:

at first I need to warn you, saw dust has an addictive component

I plugged your numbers into Hornrespond and it seems the 4 Ohm version matches your specs a little better, though I would go for a slightly higher tuning, maybe up to 40 Hz in 60l plus V drivers plus V port
anyways simulation programms can be deceiving, let your ear decide.

Both drivers will be seriously excursion limited around 45Hz, where the meat is, higher tuning will help a little bit.

The Clair port will behave different than a tube, so it could be shorter in reality, also cutting this port shape to the "real" length will be more difficult if your prototype should have a QL of 20

Uwe
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

John, thanks, your practical experience here is very helpful. I'm aiming for -3dB at 35Hz, but frankly if I end up with 40Hz I'll be perfectly happy. The biggest limitation right now seems to just be fitting the size ports I want into the box, since they need to be around 1/3 meter long. I'm hoping if I stuff the box with padding and make it super stiff I'll get it to sound and behave pretty well.

The BG series is basically designed for this sort of thing, and you are correct that the 12BG100 would be much more appropriate. However, then I wouldn't get to have a little subwoofer that looks like a concert dual 18", and that would make it much less fun. There's no way I'm going outside of the B&C catalog, as that would increase my driver cost to a level that would make this project no longer fun, but Acoustic Elegance and PD have great reputations here.

A right angle bend in a port is not a problem. Just did it with a single 8" Dayton sub for my father in law's new office/PC system, using 3" diameter PVC for a 20" long port design. Another possibility, and you'll probably like investigating the science of this segue, use a passive radiator.

You could build the port as part of the cabinetry, also incorporating a 90 degree bend around an inside corner.

Given the Xmax of those drivers, the understanding that maximum SPL aren't the goal, and the smaller acoustic space the sub will be used, an F3 design hitting close to 40hz and processing in room should be achievable.

Best regards,

John
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

I just came across the Scanspeak 18W8545 7" with a very low natural resonance of 26 Hz.

Playing with WinISD, 1 speaker can reach a -3dB of about 38 Hz (@ 60 litres, vented). 2 speakers only reaches down to about 50 Hz. So maybe you can fake it with only one cone behind the BT218 looking grills...

John, thanks, your practical experience here is very helpful. I'm aiming for -3dB at 35Hz, but frankly if I end up with 40Hz I'll be perfectly happy. The biggest limitation right now seems to just be fitting the size ports I want into the box, since they need to be around 1/3 meter long. I'm hoping if I stuff the box with padding and make it super stiff I'll get it to sound and behave pretty well.

The BG series is basically designed for this sort of thing, and you are correct that the 12BG100 would be much more appropriate. However, then I wouldn't get to have a little subwoofer that looks like a concert dual 18", and that would make it much less fun. There's no way I'm going outside of the B&C catalog, as that would increase my driver cost to a level that would make this project no longer fun, but Acoustic Elegance and PD have great reputations here.
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Bennett,

So did you ever do anything with this?

That looks like it would be a totally cool and fun project. Those should give plenty of extra bass to round out almost all music listening in the LF when your main speakers have 4" woofers. I would think 30 net liters per woofer tuned to 40 hz Fb will give you a very nice sounding "mini Claire". I totally understand wanting to stay in the B&C catalog. I am using a pair of 15BG100's in my main speakers in my living room which have some 18Sound 6" mids and a Beyma AMT tweeter. The BG woofers are a real nice hybrid between home hifi and pro style subs. In my application they are just unbelievably nice. I have greater than 90 db system sensitivity all the way down to 21 hz or so. They do well with a tuning below Fs. Thanks for a great driver.

Anyway, I modeled the custom 4 ohm 8" with Unibox (which I prefer to WinISD personally) in 30 liters net as mentioned above. For 40 hz Fb the 10 cm diameter ports need to be 90 cm long, but it seems like you could get by with a little less port area and still be OK on port compression if the length was not manageable. But I guess you could ask Phil about that point. I put Xmax at 7mm since the custom woofer didn't have the Xvar number and I thought I'd go a little less than the Xvar of the 8BG. Here are some pics of the Unibox output...I'd love to hear what you ended up with.

B&C 8 092 4.jpg
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Bennett,
Something different to consider would be to augment the low end sensation through a bass shaker such as a buttkicker or one of the many cheaper knockoffs. They are awesome when you directly attach them to a couch or chair and you don't have to worry much about the vibrations affecting neighbors etc.

This would help to supplement the sensation of massive low end from a small sub while not compromising the visual BT218 appearance that you are going for and it's therefore less of a big deal if you aren't able to get much below 40 as your down point. Partsexpress has a bunch of shakers like the Auras which are cheap and effective at reasonable levels, especially when it is just to supplement the sub you are building rather than being the primary....

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=299-028

The Buttkicker BK mini has an Fs of 9Hz..... but you might need multiples which would add up...
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-9406
 
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Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

I don't want to deal with the HF combing of a tapped horn since I need response to about 200Hz in this case.

Good call. Bent or tapped horns sound truly awful at higher frequencies. Depending on the design, many I have seen get really ugly starting around 120. I think front loaded ported is your ticket to making this build actually be FUN rather than a headache.
 
Re: Small-ish Home Theater Subwoofer

Good call. Bent or tapped horns sound truly awful at higher frequencies. Depending on the design, many I have seen get really ugly starting around 120. I think front loaded ported is your ticket to making this build actually be FUN rather than a headache.

Although there is a well known phenomena with ported designs of the "organ pipe" resonance of the port interfering with mid bass/mid range response...

No free lunches I'm afraid.

Best regards,

John