subwoofer advise

Moritz Bachmann

New member
Nov 7, 2019
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Austria
hey guys, I need some advices/ help on my next project, a subwoofer for a compact PA-Setup.
This setup is meant for DJ-Monitoring and small gigs, where really high SPL isn´t required.
The Top is not finished, so no measurements here, but it uses a Mundorf AMT and a Beyma 10MC700ND in a closed box (maybe this will be changed to BR, as I have not that much experience on how much SPL is really required, and the Beyma in the closed box will be limited to max 115dB if crossed over at 100-120Hz, acc. to my poor Hornresp skills)
So now to the sub requirements, from most-important to least:
-sound quality (I use a ~400€ AMT and a 200€ Midbass driver-hopefully in a CB, so I also want the sub to be precise, fast, and so on, you know what what I mean)
-compact design, MAX. 150L, better 120-130L
-of course high SPL and good low end but I don´t know what is possible here. I think 40Hz and 125dB would be nice to have, but the two points before are more important

What´s not (so) relevant:
-The driver... everything from 12"-18" is possible, if it can meet the requirements (300-400€ max. are OK if they are worth it)
Multiple enclosures are possible, the price range is planned for two of them, so it´s more like 600-800€, maybe 4 cheaper 12" will do it better than 2x15"?
-complicated build- I have a carpenter and a CNC router on my side
-Amp-Power, there is a LabGruppen FP10000Q waiting to get used (although this might change, as the subs will get an own amp-module maybe)

I started with 12" 6th order BP Designs from B&C and 18sound, but they both didn´t seem good enough, so I tried to re-design them... but I don´t want to built X prototypes, and I know enough about Speaker Design to not think that I can one-shot a perfect BP- design from a "good" Hornresp sim.
Then I came to 15" BR enclosures, the drivers are not that more expansive, and the output from 40-100Hz is compareable.

The Drivers I tried the 12" BP system:
Beyma 12P1000ND

12" BR-design:
B&C 12NW100
Oberton 12NSW600

Drivers for 15"BR:

B&C 15SW100ND/ 15SW115ND
Beyma 15LEX1000/ 15LEX1600
Oberton 15NSW600


Actually there are so many possibilities that I have lost the track many times, so some some advices/ hints for any good directions are very welcomed.
It´s also not that I really WANT to design my own sub (not yet) so if anyone knows, or would share a good design with me, please let me know.

I hope some of you can help me out here
 

Moritz Bachmann

New member
Nov 7, 2019
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Austria
input Hornresp.pngoutput Hornresp.png

Those are the Hornresp in-/ output for the 12" BP system, I would really like to make at least one prototype for this design, but I don´t know if it isn´t better to spend the time and money into a good 15" BR design...
 
Jan 19, 2011
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Oslo, Norway, Norway
drbentsen.no
I still think this is a good, compact subwoofer design. Been thinking about building one to try it out.

 

Uwe Riemer

Freshman
Mar 3, 2011
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Germany
Already thought about this one, but for a single cab it's too large, and I would prefer a little more output for less extention
Some thoughts:
BP designs may look good in Sim, but what happens if the driver gets hot.
The more SPL you try to extract from the enclosure design the more the response can change with drive level.
Hornresp gives the option to simulate Power Compression.

BR designs on the other hand are pretty simple, not too many parameters.
From your 15" driver list I have not tried the 15SW100 in my own designs, but think one German manufacturer uses them in single and double versions. These subs are quite good driven by PLM+12k44.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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Bideford, Devon. UK
For a few years I've used 4 x 50l sealed 18s crossed over at 100Hz with about 2kW per pair, which just keep up with Beyma TPL150H/Beyma 10LW30N tops (20l ported 80Hz). I now find it very difficult to listen to any system using ported or horn-loaded subs, such is the accuracy of sealed subs to my ears. One of my acid tests is double-pedal drums such as used by Metallica, which comes through as the brutal machine gun-like staccato it should, not as a transient-blurred phrrrrt-phrrrrrt sound most usually reproduced. (Please don't for one minute think that this genre is all I play!). To my mind, the lowest possible stored energy in a subwoofer system is crucial, but both relfex and horn subs have it in droves.
It is super-quick and easy to build a trial sealed enclosure. Try it - and with the correct EQ and power you might like it!
 
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Max Warasila

Graduate
Feb 20, 2013
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Richmond, VA
I don't know if it's possible within your price range, but I'd give the DS range a look as well. The amount of Bl is just monstrous, so you get that "fast precise bass" you want. ;)

In all seriousness, I believe it's a significant step up from the SW series in terms of performance.
 

Stef Smits

Freshman
Apr 4, 2017
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8
The 15DS115 would do the job I think. I have tried in in a 6th order BP design. Net volume of the rear chamber was around 80L and first tuning was 37Hz. While 40Hz was the aim (so I have to shorten the port), the 15DS115 was still underdamped at Fb.

If interested, I am selling the 15DS115-8's. The BP design from above was accually not designed around the 115, and I am going for the intended driver now.
 

Moritz Bachmann

New member
Nov 7, 2019
17
2
3
25
Austria
thank you all for your input.
I think I should give a CB sub a try... with the option to make some BR enclosures later.
My main question is now if it pays off in closed box too, to bet on high performance drivers?
For a comparison, what drivers would you buy with, let´s say 1000€ :

3x 15DS100
3.2x 15SW100
2.5x 15DS115
2.6x 15SW115

2.8x 18DS100

2.7x 15LEX1600ND
3.5x 15LEX1600FE
3.8x 15LEX1000ND
4.4x 15LEX1000FE

any other suggestions? the weight of FE magnets doesn´t matter that much, so if there is a compareable FE driver at lower cost, that would be ok too.

Atm I would try the 15DS100 or the 18DS100 in a dual opposed CB. The-115´s wouldn´t provide that much more output/ control, compared to their price, would they?

Amping will be two 2k Hypex Modules, for just two drivers first, but i guess two others will follow soon