tall skinny speakers

[Gene Hardage]

Tall skinny speakers are being made by several companies. I've heard and used the Bose and was a little skeptical about tall skinny speakers in general because of them. Then I had a chance to hear and use some made locally by Ramsdell (of course ~:-D~:grin: ) Ramsdell Pro Audio - Products Then they made another model that's not yet listed on their website. Instead of 4's it has 5's or 5.5 or what ever it is. In a departure from the other ones - the new one has the 1" horn up closer to the top instead of the center. An official sound company friend in the area just happens to have 4 of them and he's been tinkering with a newfangled tripod to dangle them from and he sent me a photo. I'll add more to this as I go but for now I'll just say that I'm using my pair on top of a single 18 sub for all of my local band gigs and because they get nearly 180 degrees of dispersion I'm not using any monitors! Saves time and less junk to carry not to mention the wonderful side benefit of not scaring people with big speakers. They have an unusual way of filling an area with sound without blasting but still being plenty loud. I'm really enjoying these things.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Tall skinny speakers are being made by several companies. I've heard and used the Bose and was a little skeptical about tall skinny speakers in general because of them. Then I had a chance to hear and use some made locally by Ramsdell (of course ~:-D~:grin: ) Ramsdell Pro Audio - Products Then they made another model that's not yet listed on their website. Instead of 4's it has 5's or 5.5 or what ever it is. In a departure from the other ones - the new one has the 1" horn up closer to the top instead of the center. An official sound company friend in the area just happens to have 4 of them and he's been tinkering with a newfangled tripod to dangle them from and he sent me a photo. I'll add more to this as I go but for now I'll just say that I'm using my pair on top of a single 18 sub for all of my local band gigs and because they get nearly 180 degrees of dispersion I'm not using any monitors! Saves time and less junk to carry not to mention the wonderful side benefit of not scaring people with big speakers. They have an unusual way of filling an area with sound without blasting but still being plenty loud. I'm really enjoying these things.

I'm going to pontificate on this point for a moment and look forward to other opinions about this.

Because the throw on these small column types is so wide (nearly 180) they don't have that frontal blast of a normal type box. They all seem to produce an airy omnipresent type sound that can be unusual at first when you're used to singing through boxes that "throw" the sound forward. As a singer it takes a little getting used to because the typical sound pressure sensation from a typical top box is just not the same yet it's still enough to keep up with a loud 3 pc SRVish slam-a-thon*. As a result - the same venues that would approach the band regarding volume issues have yet to mention anything about volume. People that sit up close are not wincing in pain** and people in the back are able to hear clearly as well.


*with the new Faital 18" subs I was able to bring the bass and drums up enough to match the guitar level of a friend that uses 2 x 50 watt amps with lots of crunchy pedals and yes the vocals were still on top of everything.

**I'm talking about my band at the last 2 or 3 shows - at the SRVish slam-a-thon that I was mixing it was a little like that Maxell tape add but they all stayed and enjoyed it and a few even mentioned the "sound".

Another point worth mentioning is the amazing "hi-fi" effect they have when used for DJ stuff - it's not just a little bit noticeable - they're jaw dropping when you crank them up.

So does anyone else out there have much experience with any of the new breed of tall skinny speakers above and beyond the Bose?

 

[Tim Weaver]

Re: tall skinny speakers

It's the line array effect in the truest form. Tell me this, when you start 30-50 back and start walking towards the cabinets, do they actually get quieter when you get really close? Some tall skinny boxes can do this. It's because you go from hearing 3-5 "modules" in the near-field down to listening to only one at a certain point. That's why you can get loud at the back of the room and still not kill the people in the front row....

 

[Mike Pyle]

Re: tall skinny speakers

So does anyone else out there have much experience with any of the new breed of tall skinny speakers above and beyond the Bose?

I've been a proponent of column speakers for large ballroom gigs for a few years. Here's some pics of my SLS columns:

]

.....and my newer powered RCF TTL11A rig:

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

It's the line array effect in the truest form. Tell me this, when you start 30-50 back and start walking towards the cabinets, do they actually get quieter when you get really close? Some tall skinny boxes can do this. It's because you go from hearing 3-5 "modules" in the near-field down to listening to only one at a certain point. That's why you can get loud at the back of the room and still not kill the people in the front row....

Hello Tim -

No I have not noticed this effect with this particular set of tall skinny speakers. The Ramsdells use a fancy crossover that has the higher frequency in the middle and it graduates lower towards the outside ends and that may have some bearing on that concept. They do however seem to have a very even coverage from side to side - front to back with a minimal of pain even at high volume.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

I've been a proponent of column speakers for large ballroom gigs for a few years. Here's some pics of my SLS columns:

]

.....and my newer powered RCF TTL11A rig:

Hello Mike -

What size speakers are in the SLS columns and is there a horn and if so where is the horn mounted?
Same question regarding the newer powered RCF's?
That tall tower looks like it could throw sound for a huge outdoor event nicely.

 

[Mike Pyle]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Hello Mike -

What size speakers are in the SLS columns and is there a horn and if so where is the horn mounted?
Same question regarding the newer powered RCF's?
That tall tower looks like it could throw sound for a huge outdoor event nicely.

The SLS LS8695 has 8 - 6" woofers and 9 - 5" planar ribbons in each column, no horn or waveguide. They spec a nominal 110 degree horizontal coverage. You start to lose hf beyond that but I can tell you speech is still intelligible at 180 degrees. I have used these with modest power, PLX3602s bi-amping two columns stacked per side, and covered rooms with 1600 attendance at rockin' levels. I've never had an event where I approached the real capability of the system.

The RCF columns have 4 - 1.4" exit horns at the top with 2.5" diaphragm drivers, 3 - 8" midrange also in the top column, and 4 - 8" woofers in the base column. 9 channels of amplification, dsp for vertical beamwidth and steering. They don't have the output that the SLS system is capable of, but I have been able to cover my largest ballroom gigs with them, up to 1300 attendance in a 20,000 sq ft room.

 

[mark anderson]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Consistent Volume PA System LS-1800 ? Clear High Fidelity Live Sound Systems | Phil Jones Pure Sound
I've heard these and they are worth the price!

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Consistent Volume PA System LS-1800 ? Clear High Fidelity Live Sound Systems | Phil Jones Pure Sound
I've heard these and they are worth the price!

Howdy Mark - Glad to hear that you've had a positive tall skinny speaker experience too. Like most people - my first sighting was a forest of Bose sticks and we were given the task of making them work for us in a large boomy room. The club was on the beach and was made like a big barn that had lots of doors that could be closed down to try to keep the sound in to keep the neighbors happy. They had 5 or 6 powered full stick and double "sub" combos that we linked together as one big happy speaker. ~:-D~:grin: If we were just lite singer song writer types with a brushes style drummer that would have been fine but as a harder hitting full sized band with B3 and slamming kick drum this was as usual a house PA that couldn't keep up with us. We made do by dragging in a powered Mackie sub & top for the kick and used the PA for vocals and the top of the organ and we still ran out of gas. That feeling of running out of gas while singing is what kept me from taking any tall skinny speaker seriously until I finally heard a bigger better version.

I stopped by the Ramsdell shop as they were testing a version that had 4" speakers in it and was very impressed with the fidelity. Then they made a new model with 5's in it and I was able to take them for a spin - SOLD! Those Phil Jones sticks are priced like Bose and with 3 1/2" speakers and 3 x 10" subs you're in the same ballpark with output. The bigger better versions really are amazing. I'm using a full sized single 18" sub loaded with a new modern neo Faital and it makes all the difference when compared to those Bose "subs" and without even seeing or hearing that Phil Jones thing I suspect it would walk away from it pretty easily too. Size does matter and that's why those SLS LS8695 that Mike posted are even bigger and better 'cause with 6's and ribbons you're really getting somewhere. My only negative opinion regarding those SLS LS8695 would be lifting them on top of each other. How much do they weigh Mike?

 

[mark anderson]

Re: tall skinny speakers

it makes all the difference when compared to those Bose "subs" and without even seeing or hearing that Phil Jones thing I suspect it would walk away from it pretty easily too. Size does matter and that's why those SLS LS8695 that Mike posted are even bigger and better 'cause with 6's and ribbons you're really getting somewhere.

I know what you're saying but Phil is doing amazing things with drivers. I wasn't expecting what I heard out of them. We also did a show in Switzerland last year and they had some little hk's. That was weak. Driver quality makes a huge difference.

 

[Mike Pyle]

Re: tall skinny speakers

The LS8695s are 110 lbs each. I lay them down to join them with the brackets, them walk them up. I usually have a couple of folding step things that are about 20" high. If I assemble the columns on those I can hang the 90 lb. Global Truss plates I use on the base then just tip it up. I also have some stands built with vertical truss that I can use to change the vertical angle of the column, but it gets to be a cumbersome process. That's the biggest reason I'm using the RCF columns now.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Just got done with a nice Sunday afternoon gig at my favorite spot in Homosassa on the river and a friend put a few pics up on her face page so I grabbed this one - it shows my new tall skinny speakers.

 

[Dick Rees]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Those aren't skinny, they're slim......

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Time for a quick addition to this old skinny speaker thread. I've been using these things quite a bit in various situations and have come to the conclusion that THESE THINGS ROCK! You should have seen the looks on peoples faces when they were being melted by a full tilt Southern Gospel group at a tribute to a local musical comrade in need. I'm using 2 Crown Xti 6002's - 1 per side using 1/2 for top and 1/2 for sub with single NL4 for quick and simple setup. The subs are aux fed so I use a jumper from that channel to the other amp. The Xti 6002's really light these things up and so far I've not tripped any breakers even when using a 3rd Xti 6000 for monitors all on the same 20 amp circuit* (*we were inside). The last event I used them for was an outside semi-corporate event with full rocking band and 200-300 people around beach front/pool area - the band was impressed - the people were pleased - I'm still happy with them. My current band setup for 99% of my gigs is - NO MONITORS! - just these with the subs and plenty of power. I'm using the Presonus SL24 > 2 Crown Xti 6002 > a single Ramsdell 18 and skinny speaker combination and the footprint and setup have been great. :razz:

 

[Robert Kenton]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Time for a quick addition to this old skinny speaker thread. I've been using these things quite a bit in various situations and have come to the conclusion that THESE THINGS ROCK! You should have seen the looks on peoples faces when they were being melted by a full tilt Southern Gospel group at a tribute to a local musical comrade in need. I'm using 2 Crown Xti 6002's - 1 per side using 1/2 for top and 1/2 for sub with single NL4 for quick and simple setup. The subs are aux fed so I use a jumper from that channel to the other amp. The Xti 6002's really light these things up and so far I've not tripped any breakers even when using a 3rd Xti 6000 for monitors all on the same 20 amp circuit* (*we were inside). The last event I used them for was an outside semi-corporate event with full rocking band and 200-300 people around beach front/pool area - the band was impressed - the people were pleased - I'm still happy with them. My current band setup for 99% of my gigs is - NO MONITORS! - just these with the subs and plenty of power. I'm using the Presonus SL24 > 2 Crown Xti 6002 > a single Ramsdell 18 and skinny speaker combination and the footprint and setup have been great. :razz:

No monitors? That's cool! I'm guessing that the singers are always out in front of your skinny mains? What do you do for mr drummer?

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

No monitors? That's cool! I'm guessing that the singers are always out in front of your skinny mains? What do you do for mr drummer?

I try to keep the speakers about even with the front mic(s) and for my gigs I often make the drummer suffer with no monitor (depends on the venue) - maybe he'll quit bashing and try to listen a bit more?! On gigs that I'm providing PA for others I bring monitors so they can blast their little faces off with more me more me more ME.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

Finally went crazy and got another pair of the same tall skinny speakers. Don't have a pick yet. If you look at that pic of us playing above you'll notice a pole hole on the side of that 18 and that's how I'm doing them directly on top of the sub and very tall. I also had a pole hole mounted in the side of my 2x18 cabs so when the right gig comes along I can take it up a notch in the umpf dept. We just did another gig at the same covered shed venue and it was magic. Can't wait for another excuse to use all 4.

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

This is what happens when you have to use all your toys at one time...

Notice the tall skinny speakers mounted on top of that single 18 cab. They were vocals only on a separate sub mix and they did everything one could hope for and more. While playing break music I demonstrated to several different people that they held there own quite nicely compared to the stack next to them with a total of 9 twelves and 3 two inch horns. It was easy to A>B them using the sub mix vs. the main output. Nobody could believe they were hearing just those skinny speakers (with subs of course) Yes it's a pain set up yet another pile of junk but the end results are remarkable. In the future I will use just the skinny speakers stacked on top of each other and a single or double 18 for smaller gigs.

 

[Rob Spence]

This is what happens when you have to use all your toys at one time...

Notice the tall skinny speakers mounted on top of that single 18 cab. They were vocals only on a separate sub mix and they did everything one could hope for and more. While playing break music I demonstrated to several different people that they held there own quite nicely compared to the stack next to them with a total of 9 twelves and 3 two inch horns. It was easy to A>B them using the sub mix vs. the main output. Nobody could believe they were hearing just those skinny speakers (with subs of course) Yes it's a pain set up yet another pile of junk but the end results are remarkable. In the future I will use just the skinny speakers stacked on top of each other and a single or double 18 for smaller gigs.

What are those skinny speakers? I didn't find any model names earlier in the thread.


Sent from my iPad HD

 

[Gene Hardage]

Re: tall skinny speakers

What are those skinny speakers? I didn't find any model names earlier in the thread.


Sent from my iPad HD

Here's a link to the predecessor model that mine came from Ramsdell Pro Audio - Products

Mine use a bigger 5.5? inch speaker times 8 of them plus a 1 inch horn along with the fancy crossover stuff. Anyway the magic happens when you have 2 per side on top of each other powered with lots-o-watts - I'm using a Crown Xti6000 for them. They haven't put them on the web site yet. They're also developing yet another even bigger better model and I've heard it in the shop as I stop by to check on things. (I'm the pest that lives down the street :lol: )