Monitors from FOH

[BJ James]

I tried searching but I couldn't find any recent posts

I have a gig next week where I would like to try splitting inputs into a layer for FOH and a layer for monitors.

Desk is a 01V96 V2 plus outboard pre's.

Input list is 5 vox, 5 guitars and piano mic'd in stereo. 5 mixes.

I set the desk up at home this morning to build a preliminary show file, but I'm at the shop now- so going by memory.

I assigned input #1 to channel 1 & 17, input 2 to channel 2 & 18 etc. I assigned layer 1 (ch 1-16) to stereo out and unassigned all outs of layer 2 (ch 17-24).

I have aux 1-5 for the mixes and set them post fader. I assume this is SOP- if every mix needs more of channel 17 in their mix I can just boost that fader to affect all mixes.



Here's where I fell off the tracks. If the talent wants a little rev in their mix but I don't want any out FOH (this next gig is in a high reverberant room)- how do I set that up?

Right now I have a couple different rev's set up off aux 6 & 7 returning to the Stereo In's. The Stereo returns are assigned to the main outs. I can get rev out the main's without affecting the mon mixes, but I can't apply rev to mons without affecting the mains.

I may want some rev in the room once it fills up, but I won't know till the time comes.



What have I routed incorrectly?

Thanks,

BJ

 

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Re: Monitors from FOH

Just push the aux that you want to send the reverb to and turn the knob. Keep them prefader. In fact, I would keep all of the channels 17-32 auxes prefader when doing monitors from FOH. It will make your job a lot easier. If you need more of an entire wedge, turn the antire aux up. If you need more of someone in every mix it only takes a couple seconds to adjust them in all the auxes.



The one thing that I like to keep post fader even when running monitors from foh is play back music for dance groups, etc. I have found that when I need to turn the music down in the house a little, I almost alway sneed to turn it down in the monitors too.

 

[BJ James]

Re: Monitors from FOH

Thanks Ryan,

Keeping them pre-fader will certainly give me a good visual clue if I'm on the wrong layer. I'll probably do it that way.



I did select the aux I want effects on, but when I turn the knob it also adds the effect to the stereo outs. I gotta have something routed wrong. Switching to pre-fader shouldn't affect that.

 

[jeffsw6]

Re: Monitors from FOH

In fact, I would keep all of the channels 17-32 auxes prefader when doing monitors from FOH. It will make your job a lot easier.

There is one disadvantage to this, which is that pre-fader auxes on the 01V96 are always also pre-EQ. If you want to use the channel strip EQ to make adjustments to an input feeding the monitor buses, that channel->aux relationship must be tapped post-fader.

 

[andrew gissing]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I'm not familiar with the console, but are the auxes pre/post on individual channels or set as a whole ?



Is it then possible to set the aux-sends to be pre-fade on the reverb return channels - that way adjusting level at FOH does not affect level in monitors.



You could pull the fader off and still have it going to monitors.



However when I do this I also like to have the mute affect the sends and between songs I do mute the verb & delay.



Andrew

 

[brian maddox]

Re: Monitors from FOH

Thanks Ryan,

Keeping them pre-fader will certainly give me a good visual clue if I'm on the wrong layer. I'll probably do it that way.



I did select the aux I want effects on, but when I turn the knob it also adds the effect to the stereo outs. I gotta have something routed wrong. Switching to pre-fader shouldn't affect that.

for simplicity, since you are only using two of the four reverb units, i would assign aux 6 to two different effect units [say 1 and 3]. then i would use effect 1 for house and effect 3 for monitors. you can then take the monitor return and unassign it from the house mix. then repeat for aux 7 [with effect 2 and 4]. just be aware that the knobs 'layer' will not change with the fader layers, so you'll need to keep an eye out for which knobs you're turning. hope that makes sense...



and fwiw, running all your monitor channels post fader will also be a visual cue, since you're likely to push all the main faders to units as a starting point anyway. every time you change to that layer your faders will all stand at attention in a nice little line. i've always run monitors post-fader. the amount of times i've 'needed' to... not often. but when you do, it's pretty handy...

 

[jeffsw6]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I'm not familiar with the console, but are the auxes pre/post on individual channels or set as a whole ?

They are individually controlled.

Is it then possible to set the aux-sends to be pre-fade on the reverb return channels - that way adjusting level at FOH does not affect level in monitors.

Of course.

However when I do this I also like to have the mute affect the sends and between songs I do mute the verb & delay.

The pre-fader AUX sends are still post-mute. The only thing that may trip you up is, by splitting your inputs into 1/17, 2/18, and so on, muting channel 1 would silence the kick drum in the PA, but not in the monitors -- you would also need to mute channel 17. It is trivial to make a couple of mute groups and put them on user keys if this inconveniences you. Also, if you just want a button for ''mute all monitors,'' the 01V also has mute groups (and VCA/DCAs) for buses.

 

[andrew gissing]

Re: Monitors from FOH

Ahh sorry, wrong term.



I normally mute my fx returns; and because the mute affects the auxillaries, this does mute the effects in monitors as well.



I definately need to keep the monitors on otherwise.. muso's would not like it.



I also learned early on that it's important to leave the mics and sends on when the band arrive otherwise they go to the mic, test it and proclaim it not working. Kinda like getting off on the wrong foot.





Andrew

 

[BJ James]

Re: Monitors from FOH

In fact, I would keep all of the channels 17-32 auxes prefader when doing monitors from FOH. It will make your job a lot easier.

There is one disadvantage to this, which is that pre-fader auxes on the 01V96 are always also pre-EQ. If you want to use the channel strip EQ to make adjustments to an input feeding the monitor buses, that channel->aux relationship must be tapped post-fader.

I wanted to disagree with this right away, as I've done lots of pre-post aux eq'ing in the past with this desk, but you really had me second guessing.

Anyways, I'm home now and at the desk and the pre fader aux IS post EQ. IOW, you CAN EQ the strip to aux- pre fader.

Now to tame my Rev/Aux/Main problem.



BJ

 

[jeffsw6]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I normally mute my fx returns; and because the mute affects the auxillaries, this does mute the effects in monitors as well.

There are several straight-forward ways to get the behavior you want. If you have enough channels, you can split the FX return just like any other input. This is a little easier to setup using Studio Manager than with the UI in the console.



If you do not have extra channels for FX splits, you can route your existing FX return channel to a group, instead of the stereo bus. Then you can mute that group bus instead of the FX channel. A user key linked to that group's mute function will prevent you from having to constantly go to the master layer to mute it. You will still be able to adjust the FX return fader as normal.



I am pretty sure these are the easiest ways to do what you want on the 01V.

 

[jeffsw6]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I wanted to disagree with this right away, as I've done lots of pre-post aux eq'ing in the past with this desk, but you really had me second guessing.

Anyways, I'm home now and at the desk and the pre fader aux IS post EQ. IOW, you CAN EQ the strip to aux- pre fader.

Now to tame my Rev/Aux/Main problem.

You have me second-guessing also. Here is the block diagram from the 01V96 instruction manual.

I suppose it could be wrong. Honestly, I never bothered checking, as I always split at least vocals with my 01V, if not the entire band. I guess I will try it next time I have it out and find out if I, and the block diagram, are wrong!

 

[Rob Spence]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I used to set up my desk like you did BJ since the reason was to avoid compressors on the monitors and have separate EQ for them too.



Then, I realized for me, the only channels I cared about for the most part were the vocal channels.



So, I then just split the vocals and if someone wanted guitars or what ever, I just put it in from the normal channel. This meant I didn't have to set up the gates and comps twice for the drums too.



So, the next thing I did to speed up operation was to make a custom fader layer. On it I put the channels that I ride, along with the vocals and the monitor vocals. Now I can deal with most things during the show without changing layers. For things like the drums and some instruments I just go to the main layer and make the needed changes. This made changes to vocal monitors (most requested change during a show) real quick and reduced the error rate a bunch.

 

[Ryan Lantzy]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I wanted to disagree with this right away, as I've done lots of pre-post aux eq'ing in the past with this desk, but you really had me second guessing.

Anyways, I'm home now and at the desk and the pre fader aux IS post EQ. IOW, you CAN EQ the strip to aux- pre fader.

Now to tame my Rev/Aux/Main problem.

You have me second-guessing also. Here is the block diagram from the 01V96 instruction manual.

I suppose it could be wrong. Honestly, I never bothered checking, as I always split at least vocals with my 01V, if not the entire band. I guess I will try it next time I have it out and find out if I, and the block diagram, are wrong!

What am I missing? According to that diagram, BJ is correct, i.e. you and the diagram dissagree.

 

[Tim Padrick]

Re: Monitors from FOH

I'm not familiar with the console, but are the auxes pre/post on individual channels or set as a whole ?

They are individually controlled.

Is it then possible to set the aux-sends to be pre-fade on the reverb return channels - that way adjusting level at FOH does not affect level in monitors.

Of course.

However when I do this I also like to have the mute affect the sends and between songs I do mute the verb & delay.

The pre-fader AUX sends are still post-mute. The only thing that may trip you up is, by splitting your inputs into 1/17, 2/18, and so on, muting channel 1 would silence the kick drum in the PA, but not in the monitors -- you would also need to mute channel 17. It is trivial to make a couple of mute groups and put them on user keys if this inconveniences you. Also, if you just want a button for ''mute all monitors,'' the 01V also has mute groups (and VCA/DCAs) for buses.

One can always use the pad as a dim control, which will affect both layers (so long as it's not being used to get the PFL right of course).