DSP

[CenterStageAudio]

Howdy



A buddy of mine and I have been discussing what DSP to get in our current rigs. I'm currently running a drpa (feel free to laugh).



I've gotten advice on the Ashly 3.24 (http://www.ashly.com/protea324cl-cl-d.html) for mains, and the 4.24 (http://www.ashly.com/protea424c.html) for a four mix bi-amp monitor rig.



In the next week, I will be getting a qrx rig. Pro's/Con's with the dc-one?



How are the menu's with these processors? Neat features? Over all, how do they sound?



I've played around with the digital geq's from Ashly, but not enough to really dig in to see other features.



I would like to keep all of my racks' processing similar, rather than having multiple companies scattered through my rigs like I do now.



-B

 

[Daniel Nickleski]

Re: DSP

I have never liked the dc one. I find the interface a bit rough to move around on. For a little bit more you can find a used xta 226 to do the job! Or look into the BSS mini drive line. They pop up at good prices all the time.

 

[Greg Cameron]

Re: DSP

I have never liked the dc one. I find the interface a bit rough to move around on. For a little bit more you can find a used xta 226 to do the job! Or look into the BSS mini drive line. They pop up at good prices all the time.

+1. XTA & BSS are also better sounding processors with excellent limiters. XTA wins for best DSP limiters IMO.



Greg

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: DSP

The DC-One is the manufacturer-provided processor for your rig; therefore, it is going to sound the best/most correct with the factory presets.



You can use whatever DSP you want for any rig you want, but the DSP settings will not translate from platform to platform. If EV does not provide specific settings for the QRX for other processors, you're not going to have a good time unless you're extremely versed in measurement and have a DC-One handy to measure and copy.



So, even if other processors are ''better'' to navigate around on, the best bet is to use the one your manufacturer supports. Most likely, using the correct processor will yield a good result such that you won't have to play around with the processor much after things are loaded up.

 

[Jelmer de Jong]

Re: DSP

Don't know about the costs, but get the DX46 if possible. FIR filters are a big improvement. The things I found most notible where better arrayability(is that a word?) and being able to listen to high spl over a longer period of time.

 

[David Sturzenbecher]

Re: DSP

FIR filters won't yield much advantage unless dialed in by professionals and never in the field. Does the DX46 have FIR filters for QRX boxes? I wouldnt base my DSP choice on FIR capabilities at this level.

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: DSP

The DC-One is the manufacturer-provided processor for your rig; therefore, it is going to sound the best/most correct with the factory presets.



You can use whatever DSP you want for any rig you want, but the DSP settings will not translate from platform to platform. If EV does not provide specific settings for the QRX for other processors, you're not going to have a good time unless you're extremely versed in measurement and have a DC-One handy to measure and copy.



So, even if other processors are ''better'' to navigate around on, the best bet is to use the one your manufacturer supports. Most likely, using the correct processor will yield a good result such that you won't have to play around with the processor much after things are loaded up.

eeh, If you cant make a QRX box sound good with any basic DSP and your ear, its not a problem with the DSP. Ive run my QRXs with my own settings and NO EQ without any problems.

 

[Bennett Prescott]

Re: DSP

eeh, If you cant make a QRX box sound good with any basic DSP and your ear, its not a problem with the DSP. Ive run my QRXs with my own settings and NO EQ without any problems.

Evan, if your ears are that good, you can have my job. Also, your settings had no EQ in them?

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: DSP

eeh, If you cant make a QRX box sound good with any basic DSP and your ear, its not a problem with the DSP. Ive run my QRXs with my own settings and NO EQ without any problems.

Evan, if your ears are that good, you can have my job. Also, your settings had no EQ in them?

haha love the image, And I used NO EQ on my QRX rigs for several months until I could afford it. I used anything from Driverack to a simple Rane MX23 crossover on qrx 153s and 115s biamped and with subs and never once looked up any crossover points or frequencies.153s especially sound very good with almost no help. Unless I can control the EQ out front, and not on a driverack screen on stage, id rather not have it. I find it rather simple. Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

 

[Bennett Prescott]

Re: DSP

I used NO EQ on my QRX rigs for several months until I could afford it. I used anything from Driverack to a simple Rane MX23 crossover on qrx 153s and 115s biamped and with subs and never once looked up any crossover points or frequencies.153s especially sound very good with almost no help. I find it rather simple.

If that worked for you, you can save a lot of money by getting rid of processing, etc. I'd love to see what your channel EQ looked like to compensate for the arbitrary XO, phase alignment, and loudspeaker EQ.

Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

OK, but are you right?

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: DSP

I used NO EQ on my QRX rigs for several months until I could afford it. I used anything from Driverack to a simple Rane MX23 crossover on qrx 153s and 115s biamped and with subs and never once looked up any crossover points or frequencies.153s especially sound very good with almost no help. I find it rather simple.

If that worked for you, you can save a lot of money by getting rid of processing, etc. I'd love to see what your channel EQ looked like to compensate for the arbitrary XO, phase alignment, and loudspeaker EQ.

Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

OK, but are you right?

It worked and it worked just fine. I dont use very much board EQ either. Let me know if your in cleveland you can come see my workflow. It really doesnt take much to make a rig like that sound good. I dont see whats so hard to believe. Im a lot smarter then I seem, and I can make a simple bare bones rig compete with a similar rig with all the extras. What else makes a good engineer from a bad one. More then one reason why this is my primary income.





And yes. More often then not when the engineer cuts what i said he turns and says hey you were right! Why would I boast about calling out wrong frequencies.

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: DSP

...



Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

I bet if you had a decently tuned rig, you wouldn't have an issue with feedback.

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: DSP

...



Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

I bet if you had a decently tuned rig, you wouldn't have an issue with feedback.

har har. Bet if the guest engineer didnt set the monitor EQs flat then decide he doesnt have enough time to ring them out himself. There wouldnt be any feedback either .

Anyone who has been to my house venue more then once knows that all they need to do is patch and soundcheck.



to OP, Yes you can buy a DC One with presets that are going to sound really good for your boxes. I have never used a DC One and I honestly want one for my rig. But you can buy a driverack, a behringer, a BSS whatever and get very similar results. with just a little bit of work.

 

[John Chiara]

Re: DSP

hahaha..

I stopped into a local venue that I mix on Thursday nights during a break. BE brings an LS9 for FOH and in ears and bypasses the house EQ. About 30 seconds into the second set I named a few cuts and amounts...he looked up and smiled...''thanks'' he says...now if I could get to the channel high pass filters, FX and other controls...

 

[Silas Pradetto]

Re: DSP

...



Im also the guy in the back of the room calling out frequencies when the guest engineer cant nail down feedback.

I bet if you had a decently tuned rig, you wouldn't have an issue with feedback.

har har. Bet if the guest engineer didnt set the monitor EQs flat then decide he doesnt have enough time to ring them out himself. There wouldnt be any feedback either .

Anyone who has been to my house venue more then once knows that all they need to do is patch and soundcheck.



to OP, Yes you can buy a DC One with presets that are going to sound really good for your boxes. I have never used a DC One and I honestly want one for my rig. But you can buy a driverack, a behringer, a BSS whatever and get very similar results. with just a little bit of work.

It's a LOT more than just ''a little bit of work'' for most boxes. If the QRX just happen to sound decent with an analog crossover, that's fine, but it's a freak accident. And however good it may be, a properly phase aligned and tuned rig is always going to sound better.



When you pick crossover points, do you consider the coverage angle of the drivers that are in adjacent frequency bands? So that you can put the crossover where the patterns about match (if possible)?



In comparison to many, I know nothing about setting up DSP settings, but I know enough that it's not a guessing game.



Look at Vertec for example...they finally got it right with V4, after years and years of testing settings. And V5 is going to be even better, with FIR.

 

[TJ Cornish]

Re: DSP

My tolerance for volunteered ''help'' from the peanut gallery is less than zero. If someone starts shouting frequencies or mixing suggestions at me, whether a spectator, or someone connected with the system or venue, there will be words.



Do I have the best ears on the planet? I'm sure I don't. If I'm mixing, is there a good reason for the fact that it's me and not [insert name of golden-eared ''helper'' here]? Yes. It might be my organizational skills, knowledge of the music, charming personality, relationship to the gear, etc., but there's a reason.



If I ask for help or input, then fire away. Otherwise, keep your ''frequencies'' to yourself.

 

[Tim McCulloch]

Re: DSP

My tolerance for volunteered ''help'' from the peanut gallery is less than zero. If someone starts shouting frequencies or mixing suggestions at me, whether a spectator, or someone connected with the system or venue, there will be words.



Do I have the best ears on the planet? I'm sure I don't. If I'm mixing, is there a good reason for the fact that it's me and not [insert name of golden-eared ''helper'' here]? Yes. It might be my organizational skills, knowledge of the music, charming personality, relationship to the gear, etc., but there's a reason.



If I ask for help or input, then fire away. Otherwise, keep your ''frequencies'' to yourself.

As ''system dood'' my diplomatic approach is to suggest that the BE might wish ''walk the room'' and point out a particular place or 2 where I think he might wish to listen. After that, it's on him/her. I get paid the same.



Have fun, good luck.



Tim Mc

 

[TJ Cornish]

Re: DSP

My tolerance for volunteered ''help'' from the peanut gallery is less than zero. If someone starts shouting frequencies or mixing suggestions at me, whether a spectator, or someone connected with the system or venue, there will be words.



Do I have the best ears on the planet? I'm sure I don't. If I'm mixing, is there a good reason for the fact that it's me and not [insert name of golden-eared ''helper'' here]? Yes. It might be my organizational skills, knowledge of the music, charming personality, relationship to the gear, etc., but there's a reason.



If I ask for help or input, then fire away. Otherwise, keep your ''frequencies'' to yourself.

As ''system dood'' my diplomatic approach is to suggest that the BE might wish ''walk the room'' and point out a particular place or 2 where I think he might wish to listen. After that, it's on him/her. I get paid the same.



Have fun, good luck.



Tim Mc

Your diplomacy would be met with appreciation, thanks, and diplomacy in return.



There's a big difference between:

''Hi Mr. BE, I'm Mr. SE. Generally speaking we've found that this and that can be trouble spots and a little of thus and so may help things.''



and:



''Cut 4K by 3dB, add 3dB of 125Hz and turn the electric guitar up a bit.''

 

[Evan F. Hunter]

Re: DSP

]

As ''system dood'' my diplomatic approach is to suggest that the BE might wish ''walk the room'' and point out a particular place or 2 where I think he might wish to listen. After that, it's on him/her. I get paid the same.



Have fun, good luck.



Tim Mc

Thats the best reply anyone has posted yet. Except at my venue if the guest engineer is having problems, The people that pay me expect me to help him fix it and no im not just in the back of the room yelling at random every time he has a squelch. More often then not I say ''hey try this this and this'' then he does and its gone. Sometimes they let me help sometimes they dont their problem but at least im doing my job



Good help is very often accepted and appreciated unless the engineer is an ignorant fool who wants to THINK he knows it all. Which i definitely do not know it all, simply stating that I can in fact setup a rig and tune it with my own ears and that im very good with my frequencies. I learn more and more every day. Could I setup a line array in a stadium with just a few crossover points and get the same results, no. Random shout outs from the crowd or random crew are useless and annoying at best.



What about physical alignment instead of processing, if you dont have a dsp? I would honestly hate to see you people ever having to work on an incomplete system. Very one track minded. Ive heard a Vertec rig sound GREAT off of a drive rack 4800 with the companies own settings.



I know im viewed as a junior here on any of these sound forums and this is where I will bow out of this thread. I will take any PMs if any comments are directed at me, maybe we should get this thread back on point.

 

[TJ Cornish]

Re: DSP

Good help is very often accepted and appreciated unless the engineer is an ignorant fool. Random shout outs from the crowd or random crew are useless and annoying at best.

And thus the process of mutual evaluation of skills begins. My experience has been that if someone is lacking in people skills to the point that they unwelcomly foist themselves upon me, their ''help'' will be equally lacking in value.



Hopefully the lack of constant feedback in my mixes and general ability to actually hear what's going on on stage will lessen the need for certain folks to feel the need to assist me.