Help with 12V air compressor, please.

J

Jack Arnott

Senior
Jan 29, 2011
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Hello All,
As some of you might remember I have a hobby of aerial photography, and I use a balloon filled with helium to lift the camera in the air. Helium is quite expensive, and it takes a lot to get even a couple of pounds off the ground.

So I am attempting to recycle my helium. I use a 122 cubic foot tank currently, and can fill the balloon twice with that. I procured a 250 cubic foot tank, and I want to put the helium from the balloon in there.

Then I can start with that helium when I fill my balloon for flight.

The 122' tank is filled to 2k lbs psi when I get it. I would like to get the refill to at least 250psi.
I think the 250 CF tank holds less than two cubic feet uncompressed.

What is my best option for an air compressor?
I have looked at 12V compressors at car parts stores and find nothing but cheap crap.
Is this a good option, but I just need to find a better model?
Would I be better off with a 120V and an inverter?

Any other good suggestions anyone has?

Thanks, Jack

edit: The reason for 12v is that I am using it out in the middle of no where, and the battery from my car is the only available power source.
 
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Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Hey Jack,
you'll probably need a bit more gusto to get up to 250psi than a 12v compressor can offer. I know my small 8 gallon utility air compressor struggles a bit to get up to 100psi, and that's with a 120v motor. Might I suggest checking out a used laboratory or industrial equipment supplier? Some pretty nice laboratory grade compressors can be had for pennies on the dollar. Maybe one of those belt driven off of a small gasoline engine would work?
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Jack,
I think you need a vacuum pump.

Hammer
ps. did you ever retrieve your lost camera?
Click to expand...

Hello Hammer,
No, did not retrieve it yet. I think it is right at a year.

After looking into vacuum pumps I am not so sure.
The sucking part does not seem like it will be a problem.
I should be able to fix up a feed to the compressor, and the pressure of the helium in the balloon should feed it.
Unless I am missing something here.

I do have a call in to a vacuum pump company.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Jack Arnott said:
Hello Hammer,
No, did not retrieve it yet. I think it is right at a year.

After looking into vacuum pumps I am not so sure.
The sucking part does not seem like it will be a problem.
I should be able to fix up a feed to the compressor, and the pressure of the helium in the balloon should feed it.
Unless I am missing something here.

I do have a call in to a vacuum pump company.

Regards, Jack
Click to expand...

Hello Jack,

I was thinking of a vacuum pump in regards to the empty tank..... create a vacuum in the tank to xxx psi and then open a valve to evacuate the balloon. At this point, your empty tank will now have all of the reusable helium.

Of course pressurizing or creating a vacuum in a tank can be a hazardous adventure, so...know the limits of the tanks.

Hammer
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Jack,

I was thinking of a vacuum pump in regards to the empty tank..... create a vacuum in the tank to xxx psi and then open a valve to evacuate the balloon. At this point, your empty tank will now have all of the reusable helium.

Of course pressurizing or creating a vacuum in a tank can be a hazardous adventure, so...know the limits of the tanks.

Hammer
Click to expand...

Oh, I like this, way to think outside the balloon.

Safety should not be an issue. These tanks are about 1/2" thick. and are usually filled to 2000lbs psi.
I would be lucky to obtain 500psi.

One bennefit of this plan would be that I could vacuum out the tank with 120v and take it with me to the wilds.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Tom Manchester said:
Hey Jack,
you'll probably need a bit more gusto to get up to 250psi than a 12v compressor can offer. I know my small 8 gallon utility air compressor struggles a bit to get up to 100psi, and that's with a 120v motor. Might I suggest checking out a used laboratory or industrial equipment supplier? Some pretty nice laboratory grade compressors can be had for pennies on the dollar. Maybe one of those belt driven off of a small gasoline engine would work?
Click to expand...

Hello Tom, Thanks for this suggestion. One advantage I have is that it is a relatively small tank, so psi is more important than sheer volume.
So you are thinking of SCUBA type industrial?

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Given that no risk to human life is involved in your balloon flights, why is hydrogen (cheap to buy/make) not an option here?. Helium is fiendishly expensive over here too.
M
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Jack,

I was thinking of a vacuum pump in regards to the empty tank..... create a vacuum in the tank to xxx psi and then open a valve to evacuate the balloon. At this point, your empty tank will now have all of the reusable helium.

Of course pressurizing or creating a vacuum in a tank can be a hazardous adventure, so...know the limits of the tanks.

Hammer
Click to expand...

Hmmm, after further review.......
If I created enough of a vacuum to empty the balloon into the tank, then I would have no pressure to push it back out into the balloon for the next flight.

Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Tom Manchester said:
Hey Jack,
you'll probably need a bit more gusto to get up to 250psi than a 12v compressor can offer. I know my small 8 gallon utility air compressor struggles a bit to get up to 100psi, and that's with a 120v motor. Might I suggest checking out a used laboratory or industrial equipment supplier? Some pretty nice laboratory grade compressors can be had for pennies on the dollar. Maybe one of those belt driven off of a small gasoline engine would work?
Click to expand...


Hello Tom, I was not thinking last night, and confused my gal/cf. So, yeah, I have to fill the same tank, and to a much higher psi.
Still checking into this option.

Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Tim Padrick said:
Just steal one or more of the cylinders from the car engine.
Click to expand...


Tim, I don't think I could effectively control the input of the cylinder, and have it be only the helium that was being compressed.
Do you have a suggestion for that end of it?

Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Mike Diack said:
Given that no risk to human life is involved in your balloon flights, why is hydrogen (cheap to buy/make) not an option here?. Helium is fiendishly expensive over here too.
M
Click to expand...


Mike, I think my life would be at risk in the transport, and more so filling of the balloon.
I have had one burst in my hands. 65 cubic feet would be quite a bit at close range.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Mike Diack said:
Given that no risk to human life is involved in your balloon flights, why is hydrogen (cheap to buy/make) not an option here?. Helium is fiendishly expensive over here too.
M
Click to expand...


And surprisingly to me, I have been asked by authorities if it is filled with anything flammable.
It can draw attention, especially when I am in national parks.

Jack
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello Jack,

I was thinking of a vacuum pump in regards to the empty tank..... create a vacuum in the tank to xxx psi and then open a valve to evacuate the balloon. At this point, your empty tank will now have all of the reusable helium.

Of course pressurizing or creating a vacuum in a tank can be a hazardous adventure, so...know the limits of the tanks.

Hammer
Click to expand...


the vacuum is measured in pascals, or more crudely inHg (inches of mercury) rather than psi.

achieving a 29 inHg vacuum is fairly easy, but i would think the pump and measurement equipment to effectively achieve the vacuum-pressure necessary to transfer the helium from the balloon to the tank would far outweigh the savings. also, i believe the result would be an equalised pressure considerably less than that of the balloon.

thinking back to the use of the vehicle, you can install a compressor (like an a/c compressor) which will run off of engine power. tire service trucks often use them, but i imagine they'd only be capable of <150psi.

R~


found 'em:
http://www.vmac.ca/index.php?underhood
http://www.vanair.com/underdecks-c-4_152.html
 
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Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

If you want something 12V, the Viair 480c will get you pretty close at 200psi. The Viair stuff is pretty robust, however the cost is also rather robust (you do get what you pay for though)
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

A friend used ohmbru hydrogen in high school. The balloon carried a balsa ring with candles, one of which terminated in a fuse to the balloon. It was a curious illuminated UFO for quite a while, then Kaboom.
 
Re: Help with 12V air compressor, please.

Jack Arnott said:
Hello All,

edit: The reason for 12v is that I am using it out in the middle of no where, and the battery from my car is the only available power source.
Click to expand...


Jack, I used to be an off-road truck enthusiast and we used to have uses for compressed air out in nowhere, also. Main uses are inflating tires and operating air tools. I don't know how the pressures involved would translate to your needs.

I remember having an ARB compressor in my truck which was very high quality as I recall it. ARB is an Australian brand with a large distribution network in the US.

Another great source of compressed air in a truck/car if you are allowed to idle your engine where your are is to have an offroad-shop mount an additional pulley and belt to your engine that can run a second-hand car air condition compressor you buy cheaply at a car salvage yard. Obviously, there is no air-con system or gas involved, you just utilize the compressor. It works so that the engine pulls the additional belt and pulley assembly all the time, but there is virtually no load on the engine when the pump is not in use, as the actual pump/compressor has an electric clutch that engages it to the pulley system only when you want it to.

You could DIY this also, depending on interest/ability/time/warranty conditions of your engine.
 
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