I need a recommendation for a video projector. It will not actually be used outdoors, but it will definitely exposed to moist, humid conditions, and the full gamut of temperature swing. Super high resolution will not be necessary as the unit will mostly be used for still images, however I am looking at about a 40 foot throw and daytime usage (though not direct daylight) so a pretty high output will be needed. Can I get all this under $5k?
Video projector suitable for outdoor use
- Thread starter Jason Dermer
- Start date
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
My hunch is that you'll be struggling. What size of screen are you aiming to fill? That probably has the most bearing on the output you'll need.
My hunch is that you'll be struggling. What size of screen are you aiming to fill? That probably has the most bearing on the output you'll need.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
That's *per day*, right?
What screen size? Front or rear?
That's *per day*, right?
What screen size? Front or rear?
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
Projectors don't like humidity or temperature extremes, so depending on the conditions you might need an environmental enclosure.
The image size if critical but unless it is rather small and you either use rear projection with protected projection path or really reduce the ambient light levels, I honestly don't see $5,000, which might get you a 5,000 lumen projector, coming close unless that is for a limited time rental.
Daylight, not direct sunlight, is around 1,000fc, so with that you'd typically want about 5,000-10,000 lumens per square foot of image area and for an overcast day about 10% of that. In other words, you need to keep the sun off the screen/projection surfaces.
Projectors don't like humidity or temperature extremes, so depending on the conditions you might need an environmental enclosure.
The image size if critical but unless it is rather small and you either use rear projection with protected projection path or really reduce the ambient light levels, I honestly don't see $5,000, which might get you a 5,000 lumen projector, coming close unless that is for a limited time rental.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
$5000 for rental or purchase?
40' throw distance also requires different lenses then what projectors normally ship with. I have projected onto a screen from about 70'. It was in a cafeteria with a full windowed ceiling. I used 2x6000 lumens projectors converged to make it work.
If the temperature difference is too great, you might want to consider turning on the projector and not turn it off until the event is done.
$5000 for rental or purchase?
40' throw distance also requires different lenses then what projectors normally ship with. I have projected onto a screen from about 70'. It was in a cafeteria with a full windowed ceiling. I used 2x6000 lumens projectors converged to make it work.
If the temperature difference is too great, you might want to consider turning on the projector and not turn it off until the event is done.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
The answers I am getting here are exactly why I asked. The client presented me with a need and a budget. I am not a "video guy" per se, so I sent it out an RFQ to several companies, but I wanted to be as informed as possible. Or maybe get lucky and have someone say "I've got an XYZ wizzerbanger at exactly that price, let's talk."
A bit more info:
The projector will be used to run a slideshow advertising upcoming events. The area is the "arcade" (think shopping mall) between two venues in the northeast. It is enclosed, but as it is literally overhanging the ocean and there is only basic climate control, the temperature and humidity swing runs the gamut. There is no direct sunlight, but both ends of the building are glass so plenty of light spills in. The image size needs to be at least 80-100" diagonal.
If the client's budget is unreasonable, I can easily just let them know. FWIW, I initially tried to spec an LED wall that was 100% weatherproof, but the 40k budget (installed) was deemed far too expensive.
Thanks everyone.
The answers I am getting here are exactly why I asked. The client presented me with a need and a budget. I am not a "video guy" per se, so I sent it out an RFQ to several companies, but I wanted to be as informed as possible. Or maybe get lucky and have someone say "I've got an XYZ wizzerbanger at exactly that price, let's talk."
A bit more info:
The projector will be used to run a slideshow advertising upcoming events. The area is the "arcade" (think shopping mall) between two venues in the northeast. It is enclosed, but as it is literally overhanging the ocean and there is only basic climate control, the temperature and humidity swing runs the gamut. There is no direct sunlight, but both ends of the building are glass so plenty of light spills in. The image size needs to be at least 80-100" diagonal.
If the client's budget is unreasonable, I can easily just let them know. FWIW, I initially tried to spec an LED wall that was 100% weatherproof, but the 40k budget (installed) was deemed far too expensive.
Thanks everyone.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
The LED wall is the only way to ensure visibility without architectural changes that would significantly alter the facility. It might be better for the venue to contract with a digital signage company and sell outside advertising to support the costs.
The LED wall is the only way to ensure visibility without architectural changes that would significantly alter the facility. It might be better for the venue to contract with a digital signage company and sell outside advertising to support the costs.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
80-100" diagonal is not a very big image (imho). If you can get away with a short throw, you might find your brightness needs are lower than you expect.
And 5000 lumens is getting cheaper and cheaper: http://www.projectorcentral.com/ViewSonic-Pro8500.htm
-waldo
80-100" diagonal is not a very big image (imho). If you can get away with a short throw, you might find your brightness needs are lower than you expect.
And 5000 lumens is getting cheaper and cheaper: http://www.projectorcentral.com/ViewSonic-Pro8500.htm
Steve, can you elaborate? How do you converge 2 projectors? (I've used the google, but haven't found any good explanations.)
-waldo
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
I think a hard part is going to be the enclosure. I have a number of 5000 lumen projectors installed in ~24 ft^3 cabinets. Even with them being in a 70 degree F auditorium with 2x 4" muffin fans and vents the interior of the cabinets gets HOT! Dust builds up in the cabinets and clogs the filters. If the cabinet has glass in front of the lens it can knock your overall light output down a bit. The humid salt air is going to be rough on it too. The heat from the projector should help burn off the moisture, but I think you still may have problems. I would guesstimate a life expectancy of 2-3 years before you are looking at replacement assuming continuous use. I would probably do a bunch of smaller distributed LCD tv's in enclosures on ceiling mounts. At least that distributes your possible points of failure so you don't lose all of your video if one display dies. The Weatherproofed LED panel is probably the best option.
I think a hard part is going to be the enclosure. I have a number of 5000 lumen projectors installed in ~24 ft^3 cabinets. Even with them being in a 70 degree F auditorium with 2x 4" muffin fans and vents the interior of the cabinets gets HOT! Dust builds up in the cabinets and clogs the filters. If the cabinet has glass in front of the lens it can knock your overall light output down a bit. The humid salt air is going to be rough on it too. The heat from the projector should help burn off the moisture, but I think you still may have problems. I would guesstimate a life expectancy of 2-3 years before you are looking at replacement assuming continuous use. I would probably do a bunch of smaller distributed LCD tv's in enclosures on ceiling mounts. At least that distributes your possible points of failure so you don't lose all of your video if one display dies. The Weatherproofed LED panel is probably the best option.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
It was noted in the OP that the throw is around 40'. A 40' throw for a 60"x80" or 49"x87" image, which are the 4:3 format and 16:9 format versions of 100" diagonal, would require a long throw lens (and apparently the Viewsonic projector noted would not work). While image brightness is not directly related to throw distance, the long throw lens would also likely have greater losses in the optics and add to the cost. It still really comes down to being able to limit the ambient light on the screen. especially for front projection.[waldo] Casey Williams;8078 said:
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
TMB sells a product line that might help in the weather protection aspect:
http://www.tempestlighting.com/
TMB sells a product line that might help in the weather protection aspect:
http://www.tempestlighting.com/
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
Also http://www.displaydevices.com/products/staging_solutions/epe.html. However, those enclosures alone could exceed the under $5,000 budget for the projector.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
Personally I would be looking at 4x 52"-60" LCD/Plasma displays instead of projection. If it's going to be up in the air the bezel running down the middle of the image shouldn't be all that obtrusive.
There are commercial displays available that will meet your environmental requirements, but you're likely going to be increasing the price of course.
Either way I don't think the budget is very reasonable.
Personally I would be looking at 4x 52"-60" LCD/Plasma displays instead of projection. If it's going to be up in the air the bezel running down the middle of the image shouldn't be all that obtrusive.
There are commercial displays available that will meet your environmental requirements, but you're likely going to be increasing the price of course.
Either way I don't think the budget is very reasonable.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
I found a protective box for projects below - we used them last November and the cost was less than $2K, we used a $2K project so should come in under your budget.
Outdoor Projector enclosure|Protective projector housing|all weather projector enclosure
Just noticed a video on YT -
There is also Tempest too, but I know they are more expensive
Hope it helps.
Julian
I found a protective box for projects below - we used them last November and the cost was less than $2K, we used a $2K project so should come in under your budget.
Outdoor Projector enclosure|Protective projector housing|all weather projector enclosure
Just noticed a video on YT -
There is also Tempest too, but I know they are more expensive
Hope it helps.Julian
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
How wide is your viewing area? Just a thought but a significantly higher gain screen help reject off axis light and concentrate more of the projected light back towards the direction it came from, but you will lose off axis viewing in the process. How about rear projection in a box with a couple of mirrors to reduce the throw needed? Again just a thought as I haven't done any design spec's for it.
How wide is your viewing area? Just a thought but a significantly higher gain screen help reject off axis light and concentrate more of the projected light back towards the direction it came from, but you will lose off axis viewing in the process. How about rear projection in a box with a couple of mirrors to reduce the throw needed? Again just a thought as I haven't done any design spec's for it.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
Enclosures are available to solve the outdoor aspect. The throw distance issue is simply a matter of using the appropriate lens. The bigger issue is one of brightness.
The rule of thumb for daylight (not direct sun) visibility is a screen intensity of 5000 nits (this makes some assumptions about required contrast ratio). Assuming a screen gain of .7 (white painted wall), this means that you need ~7k lumens per square foot of screen area. A 120" 4:3 screen is ~50 square feet, so you're well into the multiple-stack 20k+ lumen range. Well over $5k to purchase.
For comparison, computer screens are typically around 300 nits, so if that were sufficient brightness, an 18k projector would get you that level over your 120" screen. A 5k projector (about the max you'd be able to squeeze into your budget with lens and housing) would get you about that intensity over a 60" diagonal area (3'x4')
Enclosures are available to solve the outdoor aspect. The throw distance issue is simply a matter of using the appropriate lens. The bigger issue is one of brightness.
The rule of thumb for daylight (not direct sun) visibility is a screen intensity of 5000 nits (this makes some assumptions about required contrast ratio). Assuming a screen gain of .7 (white painted wall), this means that you need ~7k lumens per square foot of screen area. A 120" 4:3 screen is ~50 square feet, so you're well into the multiple-stack 20k+ lumen range. Well over $5k to purchase.
For comparison, computer screens are typically around 300 nits, so if that were sufficient brightness, an 18k projector would get you that level over your 120" screen. A 5k projector (about the max you'd be able to squeeze into your budget with lens and housing) would get you about that intensity over a 60" diagonal area (3'x4')
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
Ignoring the fact that this is a zombie thread and that 100,000 lumens for $5K (or $250K) isn't a reality, I am really curious about the new laser projectors:
Digital Projection Launches 10,000-Lumen Laser Projector | Live Design Magazine [primary-term] press release archives
Seems like these could potentially scale better than typical discharge sources.
Ignoring the fact that this is a zombie thread and that 100,000 lumens for $5K (or $250K) isn't a reality, I am really curious about the new laser projectors:
Digital Projection Launches 10,000-Lumen Laser Projector | Live Design Magazine [primary-term] press release archives
Seems like these could potentially scale better than typical discharge sources.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
There are LCD flat panel displays with extremely thin bezels available and a tiled mutliple display 'wall' of those may be a better solution in this type of application than projection.
A detail, but while most 'professional' or 'commercial' projectors support optional lenses, many lower cost projector options may be limited to the lens provided with the projector. In addition, projectors will often have their brightness rated with the 'standard' lens at optimal conditions so the more complex optics of a long throw lens can incur some light loss compared to the 'standard' lens and thus also result in some reduction of the projector output.
There are LCD flat panel displays with extremely thin bezels available and a tiled mutliple display 'wall' of those may be a better solution in this type of application than projection.
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
I second brad's opinion on this one. Just look at S4 photometrics, after all.
I am wondering… why did we bring this back from the dead? I'd like to see if the OP has already chosen a solution, so that we can see what worked in the end!
I second brad's opinion on this one. Just look at S4 photometrics, after all.
I am wondering… why did we bring this back from the dead? I'd like to see if the OP has already chosen a solution, so that we can see what worked in the end!
Re: Video projector suitable for outdoor use
I saw an Epson 25K lumen projector for less than 2K, https://www.google.com/search?q=250...OThgeM34C4Bw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=637
Julian
I saw an Epson 25K lumen projector for less than 2K, https://www.google.com/search?q=250...OThgeM34C4Bw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=637
Julian