Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

M

Matt Vivlamore

Senior
Jan 11, 2011
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Southern MD, USA
www.meerkatsound.com
I'm thinking about buying one of these, because it’s a 4 channel amp and I would only need to carry a 2 space rack. With this amp, I would be replacing 1 IT4000 and 1 IT8000.

So my question is; do you think I would have a problem running this amp on a 120v/20 amp breaker with my set-up?

I would be running this amp in several different configurations.

Set-up #1 (typical): stereo Left & Right
Ch1: QRx212 (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch2: QRx212 (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)

Set-up #2: small rig.
Ch1: MRX 512m (800w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch2: MRX 512m (800w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX718s (1600w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX718s (1600w @ 8 ohm Program)

Set-up #3: future plan, as this will be 1 stack per-side. (I might switch to this in the future)
Ch1: QRx212 Horns (150w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch2: QRx212 12s (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
 
Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Matt Vivlamore said:
I'm thinking about buying one of these, because it’s a 4 channel amp and I would only need to carry a 2 space rack. With this amp, I would be replacing 1 IT4000 and 1 IT8000.

So my question is; do you think I would have a problem running this amp on a 120v/20 amp breaker with my set-up?

I would be running this amp in several different configurations.

Set-up #1 (typical): stereo Left & Right
Ch1: QRx212 (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch2: QRx212 (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)

Set-up #2: small rig.
Ch1: MRX 512m (800w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch2: MRX 512m (800w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX718s (1600w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX718s (1600w @ 8 ohm Program)

Set-up #3: future plan, as this will be 1 stack per-side. (I might switch to this in the future)
Ch1: QRx212 Horns (150w @ 8 ohm Program)
Ch2: QRx212 12s (1200w @ 4ohm Program)
Ch3: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Click to expand...

The Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q is probably about the same efficiency as the Crowns converting AC power into audio power, if you could run your pair of Crowns on a single 20 amp circuit, you can run the PLM10000Q at the same SPL levels on a single 20 amp circuit.

If your "Program"
Ch3: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
Ch4: SRX728s (3200w @ 4 ohm Program)
includes lots of sustained bass tones, a 20 amp circuit will pop.

For what it's worth, yesterday tested a very efficient amp, and several less efficient amps. The efficient amp, rated at 4000 watts with a two ohm load, drew 15.39 amps with pink noise, clip light flashing fairly hard. A less efficient amp kicked it's front panel breaker (presumably 15 amps) after less than a minute of the pink noise just tickling the clip/limit light.
An old Crown PSA 2 drew 19.46 amps full tilt boogie, more than double the amperage draw per output watt as the more efficient amp.

Oh, one amp I had been using for years with no problems died during the testing, I would not advise using a single amp for a whole system.
 
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Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Matt, have you considered a pair of the Powersoft K3s with the DSP and network cards? They're probably cheaper than one PLM10000Q, but I don't know for sure. At least with the pair of 1U amps you would have a fallback if one died.

And, K3s have more power: 2600 watts @ 4 ohms versus 2300 for the PLM and 2800 watts @ 2 ohms for the K3 versus 2350 for the PLM.
 
Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Silas Pradetto said:
Matt, have you considered a pair of the Powersoft K3s with the DSP and network cards? They're probably cheaper than one PLM10000Q, but I don't know for sure. At least with the pair of 1U amps you would have a fallback if one died.

And, K3s have more power: 2600 watts @ 4 ohms versus 2300 for the PLM and 2800 watts @ 2 ohms for the K3 versus 2350 for the PLM.
Click to expand...

I had not realized until looking at the power specs that Matt is considering a downgrade from 4000 watts at 4 ohms to 2300 watts for the PLM.
Since everyone tends to run JBL SRX 728s at full tilt boogie, a PLM10000Q, (or a K3) putting out about 3 dB less power, will probably draw half the AC power of the Crown IT 8000.

None of the amps mentioned seem like a good choice for 2 ohm operation except as a backup when an amp blows and you need to "double up" and limp through the gig.

Trying to save two rack spaces and a few pounds when lugging around big, heavy speakers the size of SRX 728s seems, to put it politely, backwards.
 
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Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Art Welter said:
I had not realized until looking at the power specs that Matt is considering a downgrade from 4000 watts at 4 ohms to 2300 watts for the PLM.
Since everyone tends to run JBL SRX 728s at full tilt boogie, a PLM10000Q, (or a K3) putting out about 3 dB less power, will probably draw half the AC power of the Crown IT 8000.

None of the amps mentioned seem like a good choice for 2 ohm operation except as a backup when an amp blows and you need to "double up" and limp through the gig.
Click to expand...

But currently he can plug two amps into two separate outlets, which is not an option with the single amp. The Itechs seem to be designed with a 120v 20amp service in mind, while the PLM series appear to be designed around the limitations of higher mains voltage. Having used 9001's extensively, always requiring a 30amp twist can be a pain at the JV level.

With the PAL limiting you can keep it from overloading the circuit with, I suspect, negligible performance losses, but who wants to buy something and throttle it right from the get go?
 
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Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

As others have mentioned the 10000Q is designed to run the heavy loads on channels 1 and 2. I'm not sure if this is an issue if you aren't running at 2 Ohms.

Our friends at Star Sound in Reno have popped a 30A breaker with a 10000q. They were probably running Adamson Y10s on that gig, so they probably used more power than you are planning on using.

I'm not sure if someone else mentioned it, but you can tell these amps how big of a breaker they have. So you can limit them to 20A, but you won't be getting their full potential.

I hope you have seen the thread I started about powering the 20000Qs. They are great amps, but if you don't have 30A breakers they might not be the choice for you.
 
Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Silas Pradetto said:
Wow, is it just me, or does the PLM look pretty inefficient?
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert at amp efficiency, but looking at the QSC PL6.0 it puts out 2650 W per channel at 4 Ohms, and the draw (1/8 power pink noise at 4 Ohms) is 16A. The 10000Q gives you 4 channels of 2700 W at 2.67 Ohms, with 31 amps draw. So their efficiency is almost identical.

Maybe the QSC was also inefficient.
 
Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

Rick Stansby said:
I'm not an expert at amp efficiency, but looking at the QSC PL6.0 it puts out 2650 W per channel at 4 Ohms, and the draw (1/8 power pink noise at 4 Ohms) is 16A. The 10000Q gives you 4 channels of 2700 W at 2.67 Ohms, with 31 amps draw. So their efficiency is almost identical.

Maybe the QSC was also inefficient.
Click to expand...

A pair of Itech 5000hd's will provide the similar power with almost half the current (2500 w @4 ohms, 7.8 amps per amp - 15.6 total). For reference the PL380 does about the same with 12.2a per amplifier according to QSC. ASSuming these tests are apples to apples the PLM would appear to be less efficient, though I could be missing something completely.
 
Re: Lab Gruppen PLM10000Q

see note 2: *2) Current draw measured at 230V. 115 V figures are converted from 230 V figures.

So they are guessing.

I had the first one in the US some years and ran a system of a stereo pair of 2 VRX 932 over 2 VRX 918's plugged into a 30 Amp 115 Volt circuit, I sent it back the next day. I recall walking around the NAMM show with Bennett and having an aisle moment something along the lines of "you are listening to the wrong kind of music."

Ken
 
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