Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

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Ned Ward

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
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South Bay, CA
www.nedorama.com
Our band made it to the 2nd round of the Fortune Battle of the bands - thanks to everyone for their hints on recording with the HD24 as the demo CD really helped. We're playing June 18th at Bottom of the Hill (www.bottomofthehill.com) in San Francisco). Any tips or thoughts on this venue would be appreciated.

What they have:
1 APHEX “Model 108/Easyrider” stereo/dual-mono compressor
1- ASHLY “CL52e” stereo/dual-mono compressor
1- AUDIO LOGIC “Model 440” quad noise gate
1- DBX “266XL” stereo/dual-mono compressor w/ gate
1- DRAWMER “DL241” stereo/dual-mono compressor w/ gate
2- SYMETRIX “Model 501” mono compressor w/ limiter
1- VALLEY/US AUDIO “Gatex” quad noise gate



Looking at their outboard, I'm trying to figure out what would be best used on our input list. DW Kit has kick, snare, hat, cymbals & 5 rack toms, keyboard, bass, 2 guitars and 3 vocals.


Right now, I'm thinking of using the following for inserts based on their inventory, but am open to suggestions from anyone - thanks!
 

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Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Is there a separate monitor board, or are monitors sent from FOH?

Never mind, I just looked at their tech specs.

DO NOT patch compressors into the vocal channels. If you do, you will never get the monitor mixes right for the band.

Route the vocals through a group, and insert the best compressor into that group. That will work quite well, and will not mess with the monitor mixes no matter how much you compress the vocals.

Other than that, everything looks good.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Mons are from FOH at Bottom of the Hill. They've got a mostly functional GL2800 out front. Mix position is in the back corner of the room, and the PA doesn't make it to FOH. There's 2 flown 3 way EAW cabs that miss the first 5' of the crowd, and don't cover past the middle of the room. The rig is super bright, and needs a good amount of hacking in the 2-5k range to smooth out. There's a pair of Community VBS415's for LF. Not a lot of power. If your band is loud on stage, you won't have a good show. I can't remember, but I think the wedges are flown from the ceiling, and there are 3 mixes downstage. Tiny stage.

Have fun!



Evan
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

thanks Milt and Evan. Luckily, we're not super loud, with 2 40-watt guitar amps and a tiny Ampeg B50-R bass amp (he may need a bigger amp as we're constantly fighting for him to hear himself) we try to keep the stage volume down. Will probably bring an QSC HPR122i for our keyboard player to use as his "amp" so he can hear himself. Not looking to spend SVT + 8x10 dough, but something with a bit more oomph than a 50 watt SS with a 12".

Stage is tiny - 15' deep and 17' wide, with steps, a pillar, and stage rack all eating into that width. We've played in much smaller, so not a big deal.

Should be fun!
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Wait, you're the engineer and in the band? Are you guys the only band on the bill?

If this is a true Battle of the Bands with many bands on the stage then I'm guessing that the house engineer is going to keep it simple for the turn and burn atmosphere. Loading your inputs with inserts can be a bad thing if each act is only playing a few songs and walking away.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

On this one, we're just the band. Total of 6 bands playing that night, so inserts may be asking for too much. Haven't gotten an email on how much time per set, changeover, or if we're being asked to share any backline/drums, which would cut down on changeover time.

When I find out more, I'll probably cut our input list down significantly (2 OH and no Tom mics) to make it easier. Any thoughts from your perspectives on how else to get on and off quickly would be great. We will have friends with us to help get gear on and off. Last time we shared a stage, we were 2nd on and were able to set up our amps behind the first band and preset the drum kit off the stage; we were on in 10; off in 5. Should be interesting.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

If you own your own gear how about trying to use as little as possible as far as inserts/relying on eq etc from the console, ie get the sounds on the backine right at source, keyboard patches same levels etc also try and see if you can live without wedges or with them only carrying the vocals, for a while I did sound for a band that really only did festivals and often way down the pecking order and while it was not as comfy for the guys on stage they got very good at working with no soundcheck and often shambolic stage sound. It also got them support gigs as they were so good at falling onto a stage and playing as soon as possible our record was 7 min from loading the drums onto a stage from the van till the start of the 1st tune, this incuded throwing a 5 piece kit up (all the stands etc were memory locked etc) a guitar amp, bass amp and a 3 piece key board rig we were late getting into the showground but we started on time just.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Good points Gordon. We own all our backline, and I'll be bringing up a HPR122i for our keyboard player to use as his "amp" instead of relying on the monitors; we'll also just have him go mono on his keyboard. We practice now in a recording studio space, which is great, but not good for practicing at levels to hear what the levels need to be, but we'll work on it. I'll also get the keyboard player to work on leveling all his patches, as right now they aren't... The good thing is the only one who really needs monitors is the lead singer, but that's what they'll be pumping through anyway.

Memory locks on the DW kit are a godsend, even if that kit hardware weighs a ton and a half. We should also have some folks up there to help us get gear on/off the stage.

Attached are the revised/cutdown input list and plot.

Question - is it assuming to list mic choices and stand needs, since we'll use what they have, or is it helpful? I normally list mics for when we play with our corporate AV so we can talk about what mics/DI's they'll bring and what I'll bring; for this type of show, I'm not planning on bringing any mics or DIs as changeovers will be crazy anyway and I don't need my stuff to walk/get in the way.

Thanks again.
 

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Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

i think the plots etc are fine, though if it is a small stage perhaps some tom mics even 2 split betwen drums might be more useful than overheads as the cymbals will find their own way home down every mic on stage by themselves.G
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

It never hurts to ask for something, if you know what you are asking for from the house. I get tech riders forwarded to me all the time from promoters asking if I have access to certain mics and certain wedges that the band has asked for in their riders. Then I am told that they are not bringing an engineer so then it comes up to me anyways to make the choices based on the advanced stage plot and input list and what actually shows up- even after doing a technical advance with someone actually on the road with them.

For this gig, since there are so many people on the bill for the night I would just play it cool with the house engineer and try not to be too demanding. It's a contest so they are gong to be throwing people on the stage as quickly as possible and the engineer is going to be doing his or her best to keep the needs of the other 5 acts in a positive light. The more he or she likes you, the better chance you have they will work on your sound as you play. Bringing your own keyboard amp is a great idea. You will want to rely on the stage monitor system as little as possible. Most of the drummers that I work with no the music so well that if they lose a monitor during a festival style performance they will just play right on through it.

Keeping a good attitude with an overworked engineer can go a long way in these types of performances. Kill 'em with your personality and then double tap them with your music.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Kip - thanks and great suggestions. Just got an email today with more info on the show:

Afternoon show, starting at 12:30. Each band plays 20 minute set, 10 minutes to change to the new band.

Common backline for all bands, so no need to schlep a drum set, 2 guitar and 1 bass amp up from Los Angeles; as long as I get a Fender Twin I can get my sound with my pedalboard. Stage plot and backline requests only thing they need, so we're good. No need to bring mics, DIs, or spec anything. Actually met one of the house guys from Bottom of the Hill on ProSoundWeb and already being friendly.

No soundchecks, so we're practicing in a bigger auditorium room with just vocals in the monitors to work on our stage volume before we get there.

I'll share more details as we get closer, but we're still laughing that we made it to the regionals - with 19 bands, I guess only 19 entered!!
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Just for clarity, (on the input list) I suggest you list SL, Center, and SR for the vocals. If there are 4+ bands than the sound guy probably isn't going to remember your names.

If you are worried about sounding demanding you can add the word "preference" or "suggestion" to the heading of the column for "mic/DI". Or you can write a quick sentence at the bottom telling them that these are just suggestions, and you trust them to choose the best mics. I would tell them how many toms you have in your kit, because if they were planning on micing them they will want to know how many you have. It is doubtful that they will put up 5 mics for 5 toms, but at least they will know how many you have.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Rick - thanks. Got in touch with the production guy for R&R Hall of Fame; it will be common backline and drums for all bands, so the house will mic up drums and amps for us. All we need to provide is a backline request and a stage plot - no input list needed.

Here's what we are sending as a request based on the wording they provided in a sample; we won't know what exact gear they will provide until 2 weeks before the show, but they need it by 5/3.


Guitarist 1:
Guitar amplifier (tube), Fender Twin Reverb or similar 2x12 combo
Microphone (boom stand), lead vocals and backup vocals

Guitarist 2:
Guitar amplifier (tube), Vox AC30 or similar 2x12 combo

Keyboardist:
Roland Fantom or equivalent 61 note synth action keyboard with a good piano sound, B3 organ and a few synth pads.
Amplifier - keyboard amp (e.g. Roland KC550) or powered monitor (e.g. QSC HPR122i)
Microphone (boom stand), lead vocals and backup vocals

Bass Guitarist:
Bass amplifier (tube), e.g. Ampeg (min 100 watts)

Vocalist
Microphone (straight stand) lead vocals and backup vocals

Drums
Standard drum kit will work
kick, snare, 2-3 rack toms, floor tom
hihat, ride, 2 crash cymbals.
Drummer uses a DW9000 double kick pedal - let us know if this is an option.


Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Ned Ward said:
Any thoughts, comments or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Bring your good attitude and expectations of a great gig, and you'll have a fine time. It's simply a great, warm, friendly venue -- good people top to bottom. I can't really add to what's been said technically -- monitors will probably be working fine, but then again maybe not! -- except to point out that the merch area is pretty small.

Nirvana, Death Cab for Cutie, Green Day, Beastie Boys -- that's a short list of the legacy of this 15 x 17' stage.

Have fun!

waldo

(full disclosure: they are my competitor! But you won't find anyone in this town who will say a bad word about Bottom. Just plain good folks.)
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Instead of a monitor, get the keyboardist a pair of Grado open-air headphones. He'll love the way his keys sound, and he won't be making a lot of keyboard racket on stage. If your bassist cannot hear himself, he needs to point the cabinet at his head. If still no good, someone else is too loud.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

See John's thread about loud drummers on small stages, I have a sneaking suspicion that the local guy will have it sussed by now, and I would be suprised if there is 2 o/heads and a hat mic that are actually used, maybe a hat mic but the snare mic assisted by the nearest vocal mic will probably be enough, not perfect but enough in a multi band event where they'll all be totally different styles etc etc. G
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

[waldo] Casey Williams;10309 said:
Bring your good attitude and expectations of a great gig, and you'll have a fine time. It's simply a great, warm, friendly venue -- good people top to bottom... you won't find anyone in this town who will say a bad word about Bottom. Just plain good folks.)
Click to expand...

+1 on what Mr. Wiliams says.

Accept the venue for what it is a small cub with good vibes run by people who actually LIKE the music they present.

It's a "battle of the bands" organized by an outside promoter, any attitude or mishaps you encounter may be the result of a disconnect between them and BOTL.

Try to have fun!
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Thanks guys - we're looking forward to it and will be practicing in a larger hall (vs. a 20 x 20 recording studio) so we can get our stage volume levels in check before we get there. Since it its a BOTB, we're going in with positive attitudes, and thanking venue/event staff every chance we get.

will have a full report back in a few months after the show, and we'll see if we move to the next round.
 
Re: Bottom of the Hill venue in SF - thoughts?

Quick update:

So we got the backline list from them, and it's fine - Yamaha 5-piece kit, Twin Reverbs, AC30 6TB, JCM900, and for bass a Gallien Krueger 800RB with a 4x10 and 1x15 cab. Triton Extreme 76 and Yamaha S90 XS keyboards.

I'm fine with a Twin, since it's close to my 6L6 Bandmaster; we're working with our other guitarist to see how he likes my Keeley-modded TS9 in front of his Vox (he has the modeling VT100) to simulate him plugging into the AC30 without turning it up to Ouch to get that AC30 sound.

Will print out the preset lists for the 2 keyboards ahead of time for our keyboard player, so he knows what patches for our 5 songs (20 minutes ain't long).

Should be fun, and only having to drive up with guitars and pedalboard makes me feel almost spoiled. Family looking forward to the road trip and the full weekend in San Francisco, and we'll pack the house with friends.

Thanks again to all for the tips, suggestions and offers, and I'll let you know how it goes in a little over 3 weeks.
 
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