Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Lee Brenkman

Lee Brenkman

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Jan 13, 2011
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Oakland California USA
All of us who have mixed monitors at the "upper middle class" club level have encountered the drummer who does the sound check with ears wide open and then puts in the generic foam plugs for the show and immediately wants "more everything, ESPECIALLY the kick".

And I know the horse left the barn years ago on the "stage levels have gotten somewhere between irresponsible and thermonuclear" thing.

BUT I was still perplexed to read this, in the "Live" story about Linkin Park in the April 2011 issue of "Mix".

"The entire band except guitarist Delson are on JH Audio JH-16 ear montiors, The wedges (12 Adamson M12 underhung and two M12s on stage) and SX18s sidefills are for Delson, who wears generic foarm earplugs with Peltor gun muffs over them."

Remember one of the Ten Commandments of Rock, "it's not for volume it's for TONE!" Even if that tone is perceived though earplugs AND gun muffs!
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

I've given up trying to work that kind of thing out, Dave Rat reckons that the rig he has behid Chads ( who has IEM in) kit is now so much part of the drum sound that it's there not just for monitors, okay in a stadium maybe that's ok but indoors especially in smaller spaces I really don't see the point at all but then who am I to disagree.G
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Lee Brenkman said:
All of us who have mixed monitors at the "upper middle class" club level have encountered the drummer who does the sound check with ears wide open and then puts in the generic foam plugs for the show and immediately wants "more everything, ESPECIALLY the kick".

And I know the horse left the barn years ago on the "stage levels have gotten somewhere between irresponsible and thermonuclear" thing.

BUT I was still perplexed to read this, in the "Live" story about Linkin Park in the April 2011 issue of "Mix".

"The entire band except guitarist Delson are on JH Audio JH-16 ear montiors, The wedges (12 Adamson M12 underhung and two M12s on stage) and SX18s sidefills are for Delson, who wears generic foarm earplugs with Peltor gun muffs over them."

Remember one of the Ten Commandments of Rock, "it's not for volume it's for TONE!" Even if that tone is perceived though earplugs AND gun muffs!
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I've been there.

Wouldn't it be simpler to just hire a guy to hit the drummer in the back (between the kidnes) with a baseball bat along with the kick drum?

Then there would be less bleed into the mics-and the only "bleeding" would be the drummer at the end of the night-but at least he would get that "feeling" he is looking for.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Wow. I mean, we've all done monitors where you felt like you needed plugs in, but usually at least the performers weren't wearing any. Sounds like the ears for the rest of the band were a survival tactic.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Hello,

As I recall, Delson didn't like to wear in-ears because of a past mishap.

Taters, the Monitor Tech, was one of the first I've met to wear in-ears too.

Hammer
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Charlie Zureki said:
Hello,

As I recall, Delson didn't like to wear in-ears because of a past mishap.

Taters, the Monitor Tech, was one of the first I've met to wear in-ears too.

Hammer
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I understand a musician not wanting to wear in-ears due to a previous bad experience. Ray Charles didn't us ANY monitors for the same reason.

What I was curious about was more specifically why, if the rest of the band is on ears and all those wedges and side fills are there primarily for Mr. Delson why they don't just turn things down so he could be comfortable on stage without the double dip hearing protection.

But then I've been wondering for years why I'm sometimes wearing earplugs mixing FOH for a band who are wearing earplugs for an audience wearing earplug or should be.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Lee Brenkman said:
I understand a musician not wanting to wear in-ears due to a previous bad experience. Ray Charles didn't us ANY monitors for the same reason.

What I was curious about was more specifically why, if the rest of the band is on ears and all those wedges and side fills are there primarily for Mr. Delson why they don't just turn things down so he could be comfortable on stage without the double dip hearing protection.

But then I've been wondering for years why I'm sometimes wearing earplugs mixing FOH for a band who are wearing earplugs for an audience wearing earplug or should be.
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Hey Lee,

I can't give anything other than speculation... Guitar players are typically neurotic? Perhaps "they gotta feel the music" ? (or, in most cases of a loud stage, the drone of high SPLs ?) ;o) or "their amps work better at "10" ? ...or they like their heart to a get a workout...keeping pace with the kick drum and snare?

Happy Holiday!

Hammer
 
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Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Something is definately wrong when the guys playing the loudest instruments on stage, need even more me from the monitors.

Now I will just head back to me world of acoustic music.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Perhaps Delson met up with Neal Schon, who on their PPV had 6 Marshall cabinets, 2 floor monitors, and in-ears. I always thought he was wearing some sound isolating headphones acting as over-ear monitors - this makes me think the band is now even sillier.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Lee Brenkman said:
What I was curious about was more specifically why, if the rest of the band is on ears and all those wedges and side fills are there primarily for Mr. Delson why they don't just turn things down so he could be comfortable on stage without the double dip hearing protection.

But then I've been wondering for years why I'm sometimes wearing earplugs mixing FOH for a band who are wearing earplugs for an audience wearing earplug or should be.
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But if the stage levels were decent and the PA levels were decent-you wouldn't be talking about them now would you?
Sometimes it is simply all aobut making a statement-whatever that is.

You see shows all the time billed as "the loudest", the "most bass" etc. This is an attempt to sell more tickets. and get people talking. How true it is, is kinda unimportant.

I know that on some punk shows that I used to do I would use Sonic Ear Valves-with masking tape over the sound entrance-then put on headphones and clamp them to my head and hide behind the effects rack, because it was sooooooo LOUD!!! But of course the idea was simply to make "everything louder than everything else".
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

John O'brien said:
Ah, but then, which kick mic would you use?
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I find them typically tuned about midway between a floor tom and a low mounted so I'd generally go with a tom mic. If they have half a brain that side is tuned higher that the other so I'd put the tom mike on that side and a kick mic on the hollow side - but if they have half a brain the "baseball bat technique" is usually not needed :D .
 
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Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

"The entire band except guitarist Delson are on JH Audio JH-16 ear montiors, The wedges (12 Adamson M12 underhung and two M12s on stage) and SX18s sidefills are for Delson, who wears generic foam earplugs with Peltor gun muffs over them."
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Having a lot of monitor loudspeakers does not have to make it loud. Those 14 M12s might be giving him a 3D representation of the band, with each M12 reinforcing its own part of the mix. This I doubt.

Wearing both foam and hardshell ear protection is idiotic, though, if you are trying to make music.

If all 14 M12s are giving him "more me", the sound of the guitar becomes the sound of the loudspeakers. :(

-Bink
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Bink said:
Having a lot of monitor loudspeakers does not have to make it loud. Those 14 M12s might be giving him a 3D representation of the band, with each M12 reinforcing its own part of the mix. This I doubt.

Wearing both foam and hardshell ear protection is idiotic, though, if you are trying to make music.

If all 14 M12s are giving him "more me", the sound of the guitar becomes the sound of the loudspeakers. :(

-Bink
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Having once supplied a solo "acoustic" guitarist with no fewer than 7 monitor wedges on two stereo and three mono mixes I know that a lot of monitor wedges doesn't necessarily translate into making it loud. The article doesn't specify how many mixes are devoted to those 14 M12s.

But since he's the ONLY person in the band not on in ears I would imagine there's a lot of attempted "3D" going on. But how much that fully dimensional sound he can actually hear through foam plugs and ear muffs is my REAL source of wonder.
 
Re: Grampa muses on hearing protection and monitors

Hello,

While this has a distant thread to the Post.... I think all Rock Guitarists should, at some point in their lives, make the point to rent or borrow 6 Marshall amp stacks. Then, these amps stacks should be set up in a semi U shape, set to "11" and make noise for a few hours.....just to get it out of their systems. NO ear plugs allowed.

Cheers,
Hammer
 
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