Had an issue with my LS9 rebooting mid show due to low voltage from the wall outlet (thanks $500M Soldier Field shoddy renovation). The keyboardist and light board had the same problem. Might have been avoided with a small ups for just the mission critical sound board and wireless. Suggestions for the smallest power strip type of UPS that might solve brown out problems in the future?
UPS for ls9
- Thread starter Brian Frost
- Start date
Re: UPS for ls9
I'm using a run-of-the-mill APS UPS with my LS9, but that's not the solution for brownout situations. Furman's voltage regulators are great for that. Furman even makes a couple of models that do both UPS and voltage regulation, a fantastic combination IMHO.
Venues with continuously sagging voltage will just drain any standard UPS until it dies. Voltage regulators have let me survive full gigs with 90V at FOH before (don't ask.)
I'm using a run-of-the-mill APS UPS with my LS9, but that's not the solution for brownout situations. Furman's voltage regulators are great for that. Furman even makes a couple of models that do both UPS and voltage regulation, a fantastic combination IMHO.
Venues with continuously sagging voltage will just drain any standard UPS until it dies. Voltage regulators have let me survive full gigs with 90V at FOH before (don't ask.)
Re: UPS for ls9
Same here. I picked up an APC back-UPS 750 for mission critical shows with my smaller yamaha digital boards. The 450W rating runs my DM2000 and LS9-32 just fine. We recently had to shut down the Genny at a show for a 45 minute rain delay and the console ran on the UPS the whole time. It was only $90 at my local CompUSA store which seemed pretty reasonable.
Same here. I picked up an APC back-UPS 750 for mission critical shows with my smaller yamaha digital boards. The 450W rating runs my DM2000 and LS9-32 just fine. We recently had to shut down the Genny at a show for a 45 minute rain delay and the console ran on the UPS the whole time. It was only $90 at my local CompUSA store which seemed pretty reasonable.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: UPS for ls9
You can get UPSes that can do AVR without using the battery, but they command a price premium.
I would not try to get the cheapest/smallest UPS available, because there have been many horror stories of UPSes failing or going dead during a show, causing the console to shut off. I like to go to Newegg and sort by 'Best Rating' to see which product the customers like the best.
Since most concerts are loud, you won't hear the beeping of the UPS if it switches to battery. Get one with good visual indicators so you can fix the power problem before the battery dies and the console shuts off. You will probably want a rackmount unit so the indicators can be on the front of a rack, instead of one of the 'brick' units that you'd bury in a rack and never see.
Personally, I have a Powerware 5115 1500VA rackmount unit that is like a portable power station, but it's worth about $1000. I got it for $9.99 on eBay
You can get UPSes that can do AVR without using the battery, but they command a price premium.
I would not try to get the cheapest/smallest UPS available, because there have been many horror stories of UPSes failing or going dead during a show, causing the console to shut off. I like to go to Newegg and sort by 'Best Rating' to see which product the customers like the best.
Since most concerts are loud, you won't hear the beeping of the UPS if it switches to battery. Get one with good visual indicators so you can fix the power problem before the battery dies and the console shuts off. You will probably want a rackmount unit so the indicators can be on the front of a rack, instead of one of the 'brick' units that you'd bury in a rack and never see.
Personally, I have a Powerware 5115 1500VA rackmount unit that is like a portable power station, but it's worth about $1000. I got it for $9.99 on eBay
Re: UPS for ls9
+1. The store where I bought mine had a bunch of less expensive no-name brand UPS's, but I opted for the APC because they have been around for a while and seem to be pretty decent. I also opted for one that was about 150W higher capacity than my console is rated for just for a little safety margin.
+1. The store where I bought mine had a bunch of less expensive no-name brand UPS's, but I opted for the APC because they have been around for a while and seem to be pretty decent. I also opted for one that was about 150W higher capacity than my console is rated for just for a little safety margin.
Silas Pradetto
Graduate Student
Re: UPS for ls9
And I will add that if a console has redundant PSUs, put the UPS on only ONE of them, to ensure that the UPS can't be a single point of failure.
And I will add that if a console has redundant PSUs, put the UPS on only ONE of them, to ensure that the UPS can't be a single point of failure.
Re: UPS for ls9
+1 on both points. I have a Tripplite SMART1000RM1U, includes monitoring software with a USB cable connection.
+1 on both points. I have a Tripplite SMART1000RM1U, includes monitoring software with a USB cable connection.
Re: UPS for ls9
+1 on the Furman Line Regulators. All brown power issues at FOH have disappeared since I started using an AR1215.
+1 on the Furman Line Regulators. All brown power issues at FOH have disappeared since I started using an AR1215.
Re: UPS for ls9
Shortly after switching to my LS9-16, I arranged this basic desktop 600w UPS for FOH duty.
It is incased and mounted on shock absorbers and also fitted with (local) quad power strip:
The maximum load includes the LS9-16, two ADA8000’s, a DR-260, a double CD,
and a lighting control system consisting of a laptop and a BCF2000 controller.
I have been using this UPS for over a year now, and it holds the above ‘load’ with ease.
~~:smile:
Shortly after switching to my LS9-16, I arranged this basic desktop 600w UPS for FOH duty.
It is incased and mounted on shock absorbers and also fitted with (local) quad power strip:
The maximum load includes the LS9-16, two ADA8000’s, a DR-260, a double CD,
and a lighting control system consisting of a laptop and a BCF2000 controller.
I have been using this UPS for over a year now, and it holds the above ‘load’ with ease.
~~:smile:Craig Hauber
Sophomore
Re: UPS for ls9
Look for an " on-line" sine-wave unit of the largest size you can afford. They are the type that always run off the invertor so there is proper regulation and no glitches when switching over to battery -and if there's fussy analog pieces in your insert chain they don't buzz when running off inverter.
Also consider companion computer(s), master clocks and miscellaneous network hardware running along with the console when sizing the unit. Many ups's have non-battery surge protected outlets also. -Run a littlelite off of that to be a quick notification of power failure.
Look for an " on-line" sine-wave unit of the largest size you can afford. They are the type that always run off the invertor so there is proper regulation and no glitches when switching over to battery -and if there's fussy analog pieces in your insert chain they don't buzz when running off inverter.
Also consider companion computer(s), master clocks and miscellaneous network hardware running along with the console when sizing the unit. Many ups's have non-battery surge protected outlets also. -Run a littlelite off of that to be a quick notification of power failure.
Re: UPS for ls9
+1
The Furman AR1215 "saved me" from two days of power hovering around 100 volts. I'm not sure how low volts would have affected the analog FOH we were running, but it did bring much piece of mind - though at one point I was worrying about the extreme low volt kick-out of the Furman - but that never happened. The XTIs on stage were EXTREMELY unhappy with the 100v there...
+1
The Furman AR1215 "saved me" from two days of power hovering around 100 volts. I'm not sure how low volts would have affected the analog FOH we were running, but it did bring much piece of mind - though at one point I was worrying about the extreme low volt kick-out of the Furman - but that never happened. The XTIs on stage were EXTREMELY unhappy with the 100v there...
Re: UPS for ls9
SurgeX now offers a 1500VA/1200W, online/double conversion, true sine wave UPS with integrated series mode surge protection, http://www.surgex.com/products/su1500DC.html.
SurgeX now offers a 1500VA/1200W, online/double conversion, true sine wave UPS with integrated series mode surge protection, http://www.surgex.com/products/su1500DC.html.
Re: UPS for ls9
Very nice, but it's upwards of $2000, and not available for another month or two. 11 year warranty! I wish we (day job) did not have so many Toshibas.
Very nice, but it's upwards of $2000, and not available for another month or two. 11 year warranty! I wish we (day job) did not have so many Toshibas.
Re: UPS for ls9
There's this Furman for $1300: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1500-UPS_PRO
If you only need 1000VA and don't care about sine wave output, there's this one for around $700: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1000-UPS_PRO
I've had the F1000 for over about 8 months now, and it has been well worth it.
There's this Furman for $1300: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1500-UPS_PRO
If you only need 1000VA and don't care about sine wave output, there's this one for around $700: http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1000-UPS_PRO
I've had the F1000 for over about 8 months now, and it has been well worth it.
Re: UPS for ls9
The SurgeX are expensive, even their "simple" rack mount power strips are in the $600 range. However, there is obviously a very good reason for this. I still have not seen any proof that anything is in the same league. If you're not going to buy SurgeX my impression is that it's not worth spending any extra money at all over the most basic unit, at least for surge protection. Obviously better UPS units are... better.
The SurgeX are expensive, even their "simple" rack mount power strips are in the $600 range. However, there is obviously a very good reason for this. I still have not seen any proof that anything is in the same league. If you're not going to buy SurgeX my impression is that it's not worth spending any extra money at all over the most basic unit, at least for surge protection. Obviously better UPS units are... better.
Re: UPS for ls9
The local SurgeX rep related a story about his having a SurgeX unit on his computer at home when they experienced a nearby lightning hit. He said that while their TVs, phones, etc. were fried even where they were on generic MOV based surge suppressors, since the computer suffered absolutely no damage he had a difficult time getting the insurance company to accept that it has been a lightning hit, much less that there was no need to replace the SurgeX unit since it would continue to provide the same protection.
It's probably also worth noting that with UPSs you're usually going to pay more for true sine wave output versus stepped sine wave and for online/double conversion versus line interactive operation. Whether those costs are justified is something you have to decide.
One thing to keep in mind with voltage regulators is that for undervoltage situations you trade off current capacity for voltage, the more the supply voltage drops below the nominal voltage of the unit the lower the current draw supported. Probably not an issue for just an LS9 but something to potentially consider if you have larger current draw loads.
The local SurgeX rep related a story about his having a SurgeX unit on his computer at home when they experienced a nearby lightning hit. He said that while their TVs, phones, etc. were fried even where they were on generic MOV based surge suppressors, since the computer suffered absolutely no damage he had a difficult time getting the insurance company to accept that it has been a lightning hit, much less that there was no need to replace the SurgeX unit since it would continue to provide the same protection.
It's probably also worth noting that with UPSs you're usually going to pay more for true sine wave output versus stepped sine wave and for online/double conversion versus line interactive operation. Whether those costs are justified is something you have to decide.
One thing to keep in mind with voltage regulators is that for undervoltage situations you trade off current capacity for voltage, the more the supply voltage drops below the nominal voltage of the unit the lower the current draw supported. Probably not an issue for just an LS9 but something to potentially consider if you have larger current draw loads.