Neodymium Note

Silas Pradetto

Graduate Student
Hey everyone, this was sent to all Eminence dealers by Eminence president Chris Rose. It's a good read and I thought I would post it here:

06/15/11

Eminence Update on Neodymium Prices and Availability

Dear Valued Friends and Customers,

We have been anxiously awaiting the appropriate time to update you on the crisis that continues in our industry with rare earth minerals, and more specifically neodymium magnets. Unfortunately, price and availability are volatile and likely to remain so for some time. However, several key events have occurred recently that are very relevant, and will be of critical importance to you as neodymium customers.

On June 2nd, we were informed by our magnet supplier that they could not accept a recent Eminence order for neodymium magnets because (and I quote the supplier here),

"the rare earth mines have stopped selling until the Chinese Ministry of Minerals revises the 2011 quota. The existing quota for how much RE can be mined was set in December and will run out by August. That means unless they increase the quota, the mines will not be allowed to sell any more RE until January 2012. It is widely expected that the quota will be increased because too many factories would shut down. I just talked to some of our competitors that I get along with and they all told me the same thing, that no new quotes or orders are being accepted in China."

We were informed that the expectation was for the Chinese Ministry of Minerals to announce a revision in quotas by Wednesday, June 8th. The announcement has yet to come, but rumored to be soon. The general consensus is that the quota will allow for maintaining consumption rates exhibited thus far this year.

We have been in daily contact with our magnet supplier and expressed that we simply must have supply to meet our customer’s needs. Despite the fact that sales of neodymium magnets and consumption of ore are effectively on hold in anticipation of the quota announcement, we have managed to get our supplier to agree to honor some of our recent orders, but not without concessions. These terms and conditions are challenging and concerning. Until further notice any new orders for neo magnets will require 80% prepayment terms (magnet suppliers have to prepay 100% of their ore costs). Further, their ability to meet demand going forward is doubtful unless the quotas are increased. Some magnet prices have already escalated in excess of 50% since June 1, and will remain a moving target. As of today, most magnet suppliers will not even provide us with a quote.

At least until the quota announcement, this is a precarious situation for all of us dependant on neodymium products. The details of the announcement will of course dictate conditions thereafter, but we do not expect significant relief. In the meantime, Eminence has decided not to place any stock orders for neodymium magnets, and would discourage customers from ordering OEM neo products during this period as well. If you are desperate, we’ll do our best to obtain a quote for you and try to work towards meeting your needs, but expect challenges!

For those of you dependant on our branded Eminence products from stock, we will continue production to meet demand while existing magnet stocks remain, and then revisit the situation after the quota announcement.

There are many schools of thought with regard to the future for neodymium and rare earth minerals. Until there is a quota announcement, additional availability is virtually non-existent. If you can find the magnets, and can get a quote, the prices will be astronomical, and pre-payment will be standard. The Eminence position is that purchasing during this period would represent significant risk.

We have mentioned before, and want to highlight again that there is not a shortage of rare earth minerals. Chinese companies have built facilities just for the storage of these materials and are stockpiling as much as they can on speculation. The Chinese clearly want the rare earths for their own use. The export quota has moved from 70,000 tons in 2009, to 30,000 tons in 2011, while the domestic quota increases at a similar rate.

If the quota announcement represents a reasonable alignment with usage thus far this year, we hope it will result in some reduction in prices perhaps somewhat in line with where they were in May. We expect pre-payment terms would continue on for some time.

Also worthy of note, we have heard that the United States and European Union have both filed suit against China for restricting the trade of rare earth minerals. While this may help to a small degree, we all know the time involved for such an effort to be effective.

For the long term, we are currently skeptical of the viability for continued use of neodymium magnets in loudspeakers. We do not profess to be economist, but many factors lead us to this conclusion:

• China’s domestic production quotas increase while export quotas decrease
• China controls over 95% of the actively mined rare earth mineral reserves
• No new mining projects outside China represent significant production volume that will be available for sale for non-government related applications
• Hybrid car and windmill production dwarf neodymium usage in other industries as does the ability of these industry’s to strategically purchase and manage raw materials
• There is some speculation that China will deplete their most manageable rare earth reserves within 10-20 years

Eminence will endeavor to continue to remain well informed on the details of this situation and disseminate that information to you as quickly as possible. Like you, we have a vested interest in the future of these products, but our primary interest remains in the long term health of our company and yours. It is our hope that conditions will change in order to maintain neodymium as a viable alternative in loudspeaker designs for the future. We would however, be remiss if we did not recommend that our customers be extremely cautious during this period and as they look to their future plans for these products.

Sincerely,

Chris Rose
President
Eminence Speaker LLC
 
Re: Neodymium Note

The chinese have a monopoly until other sources are developed.

This has been coming for some time.

Interesting times.

JR

And...this is how it starts...

The US has a "Strategic Supply" of Rare Earth Materials, but is not open to consumer Markets. It is an essential material for our Security purposes.

Hammer
 
Re: Neodymium Note

It seems there are several different threads around on this same topic... This is not a surprise move, and new mines are being developed outside China (malaysia) but this takes time and capital so we can see some violent market price moves in the meanwhile. Also this is dirty stuff to process (radioactive) so not a very attractive business to the west. The chinese have been hoarding all kinds of commodities fueling some mini-bubbles coupled with an inflation issue there (funny we expand our money supply and they get inflation... not really that funny).

I doubt the Chinese want to kill the golden goose (our consumer market), but we should not mistake that their priority is to benefit themselves not us. They may place their hands around the neck of the golden goose and squeeze a little. :-(

There may be some relief from recycling used neo-, but I don't expect much from that alone.

JR
 
Re: Neodymium Note

There may be some relief from recycling used neo-, but I don't expect much from that alone.

JR

I don't know much about the processing of neo magnets, but can smaller ones be easily melted down and formed into larger structures? If so I see a market for the millions of old junked computer hard drives. Companies are already buying up old motherboards to salvage parts, it doesn't seem too far fetched to me.
 
Re: Neodymium Note

I don't know much about the processing of neo magnets, but can smaller ones be easily melted down and formed into larger structures? If so I see a market for the millions of old junked computer hard drives. Companies are already buying up old motherboards to salvage parts, it doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925838805005864

Folks are already working on this. As green as recycling is, I don't see the west doing this in the west. I do see the west filling up empty container ships sailing back to China full of scrap electronics to recycle there for precious metals or precious anything.

I've seen some scary images of what those operations look like without the level of worker safety regulations we have.

JR
 
Re: Neodymium Note

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925838805005864

Folks are already working on this. As green as recycling is, I don't see the west doing this in the west. I do see the west filling up empty container ships sailing back to China full of scrap electronics to recycle there for precious metals or precious anything.

I've seen some scary images of what those operations look like without the level of worker safety regulations we have.

JR


Hello,

China and India have been recycling our Electronic waste for years....and, as JR. said, it's a pitiful occupation for the dangers involved with handling some of those Elements....Lead, Cadmium, Phosphorous, Arsenic, Fluoride, Gallium, etc...

Hammer
 
Re: Neodymium Note

It seems there are several different threads around on this same topic... This is not a surprise move, and new mines are being developed outside China (malaysia) but this takes time and capital so we can see some violent market price moves in the meanwhile. Also this is dirty stuff to process (radioactive) so not a very attractive business to the west. The chinese have been hoarding all kinds of commodities fueling some mini-bubbles coupled with an inflation issue there (funny we expand our money supply and they get inflation... not really that funny).

I doubt the Chinese want to kill the golden goose (our consumer market), but we should not mistake that their priority is to benefit themselves not us. They may place their hands around the neck of the golden goose and squeeze a little. :-(

JR

Hello,

China is stockpiling Precious metals and Rare Earth metals...they are building-up their own Military, and supplying Iran and other Countries with "special" equipment.

Neo Magnets are used in many Military products such as linear Motors (Tanks, Artillery, and Weapon Systems on Aircraft & Ships), they are also used in trigger devices.

What scares me most is that they're more interested in their Stockpiles than selling, to be used in consumer products.

Hammer
 
Re: Neodymium Note

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925838805005864

Folks are already working on this. As green as recycling is, I don't see the west doing this in the west. I do see the west filling up empty container ships sailing back to China full of scrap electronics to recycle there for precious metals or precious anything.

I've seen some scary images of what those operations look like without the level of worker safety regulations we have.

JR

The electronics recycling business in china is pretty awful, I've seen some of the pictures as well. I noticed that they seem to sort out chips and components individually as opposed to scrapping them all for raw materials. It makes me wonder what kind of products those components that were burned off a PCB over a coal fire are ending up in.
 
Re: Neodymium Note

The electronics recycling business in china is pretty awful, I've seen some of the pictures as well. I noticed that they seem to sort out chips and components individually as opposed to scrapping them all for raw materials. It makes me wonder what kind of products those components that were burned off a PCB over a coal fire are ending up in.


Behringer, Mackie, Samson, XXL (tee,hee) ART, PYLE, etc... ;o)

Hammer
 
Re: Neodymium Note

As someone who makes over 50% of my income selling neo products, this has been quite troubling to me for some time now. Availability is much more troubling to me than simply price fixing.

I wrote a post about this in 2007. You discounted it as "the conspiracy theory du jour."

So, at what point does it go from that, to "coming for some time"? http://www.soundforums.net/images/icons/icon7.png

The chinese have a monopoly until other sources are developed.
This has been coming for some time.
Interesting times.
JR

I am however now buoyed by hope that we can see more political happenings from the same view point.

Regards, Jack

It is also puzzling to me that Wikipedia describes neo as being used in speakers and microphones.
While it seems to me that our industry uses relatively small amounts compared to the others mentioned in recent threads, and that we are more caught in the middle than being specifically targeted.
 
Re: Neodymium Note

As someone who makes over 50% of my income selling neo products, this has been quite troubling to me for some time now. Availability is much more troubling to me than simply price fixing.

I wrote a post about this in 2007. You discounted it as "the conspiracy theory du jour."

So, at what point does it go from that, to "coming for some time"? http://www.soundforums.net/images/icons/icon7.png



I am however now buoyed by hope that we can see more political happenings from the same view point.

Regards, Jack

It is also puzzling to me that Wikipedia describes neo as being used in speakers and microphones.
While it seems to me that our industry uses relatively small amounts compared to the others mentioned in recent threads, and that we are more caught in the middle than being specifically targeted.


China only has 30% of rare earth deposits, but 97% of refining capacity (to repeat it is a dirty process, nobody really wants in their back yard.) There is a new plant coming on line in Malasia (to process Australian ore), but environmentalists are already making a big stink about threat of radioactivity. The old processing plant closed in '92 there is a toxic site.

When the price of this rises high enough to reflect the true cost, it will be available, until then we are at the mercy of countries that don't much respect worker safety and underpriced the rest of the market. The US closed down RE mines in the 90's when you could buy it so cheaply from China.

China witheld shipments to japan last year after a Chinese fishing captain was held near a disputed island. So clearly China is not above using economic weapons to get their way.

I am buoyed by the belief that if prices rise high enough, the supply will follow thanks to market forces that are still working elsewhere. China does not hold a natural monopoly, but a de facto one in the short term due to driving more expensive sources out of business. If they then raise the price again, the competition will return, but there is lag time like we are seeing now.

JR

PS: I asked one speaker engineer about making speakers with electromagnets again, like the old tube radios. One japanese car company is looking at that to replace neo magnets in PM motors for electric cars.
 
Re: Neodymium Note

JR

PS: I asked one speaker engineer about making speakers with electromagnets again, like the old tube radios. One japanese car company is looking at that to replace neo magnets in PM motors for electric cars.

What was his answer? I have wondered this same thing, but never remember to bring it up when I have the chance of spending time with my company. I know that field coil speakers fetch a very high price on eBay. One guy here guttet a school of them, and threw them out.
And I have heard one set of $75K speakers that were field coil. They were awesome.

I don't know enough to know why they would not be practical on a more economical level.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Neodymium Note

What was his answer? I have wondered this same thing, but never remember to bring it up when I have the chance of spending time with my company. I know that field coil speakers fetch a very high price on eBay. One guy here guttet a school of them, and threw them out.
And I have heard one set of $75K speakers that were field coil. They were awesome.

I don't know enough to know why they would not be practical on a more economical level.

Regards, Jack

Only thing I could think (from 5th grade science class) is that electromagnets generate quite a bit of heat over time. From a speaker standpoint, it should be fairly simple for a powered speaker to integrate an additional field coil power supply since it's being fed power anyway. My money would be on the development of a "magnet free" speaker in which 2 sets of voice coils, one fixed and one on the cone are fed signal and attract and repel each other to move the cone like a solenoid. Anything seems possible at this point with all the high power amplifiers and processing going into even the simplest of powered boxes.
 
Re: Neodymium Note

What was his answer? I have wondered this same thing, but never remember to bring it up when I have the chance of spending time with my company. I know that field coil speakers fetch a very high price on eBay. One guy here guttet a school of them, and threw them out.
And I have heard one set of $75K speakers that were field coil. They were awesome.

I don't know enough to know why they would not be practical on a more economical level.

Regards, Jack

He didn't give me a simple overview type answer I can easily paraphrase but more a literal, here is what the physics looks like. So a sure, you just need to deal with this, and this, and this.

I was hoping for an "ah ha" moment, but didn't get it. And from his description it didn't sound like it was easy or easier than using PM. I was hoping that it would allow another degree of control that could allow performance improvements, and I still suspect it might, but with another channel of DSP and amp required, so there are cost concerns.

Developing, or re-developing a major driver variant is a lot for somebody to bite off.

JR
 
Re: Neodymium Note

I was hoping that it would allow another degree of control that could allow performance improvements, and I still suspect it might, but with another channel of DSP and amp required, so there are cost concerns.

Developing, or re-developing a major driver variant is a lot for somebody to bite off.

JR

My understanding is that the advantage is a more stable field. No matter where in the power band, or frequency, the flux density remains the same.

I don' t understand why you would need DSP. With a condenser microphone all you do is turn on the 48V power supply to the mic.

Regards, Jack
 
Re: Neodymium Note

My understanding is that the advantage is a more stable field. No matter where in the power band, or frequency, the flux density remains the same.

I don' t understand why you would need DSP. With a condenser microphone all you do is turn on the 48V power supply to the mic.

Regards, Jack

Indeed the old EM speakers were driven by simple power supply. I am injecting my own opinion that there may be some additional benefit from also modulating this field. perhaps enough to justify the cost/complexity.

JR
 
Re: Neodymium Note

Indeed the old EM speakers were driven by simple power supply. I am injecting my own opinion that there may be some additional benefit from also modulating this field. perhaps enough to justify the cost/complexity.

JR
It certainly helped with the addition of humbucker coils to EM field speakers where the field coil also acted as the inductive component of the B+ pi filter. Plus ca change....
M
 
Re: Neodymium Note

My understanding is that the advantage is a more stable field. No matter where in the power band, or frequency, the flux density remains the same.

I don' t understand why you would need DSP. With a condenser microphone all you do is turn on the 48V power supply to the mic.

Regards, Jack

Hello,

It's been a long time since I've studied any of this, but... I think JR may be right in regards to some sort of DSP / Feedback circuit to protect from over excursion and locking up. The old, field coil speaker designs did not handle any real power...at least not compared to what is common today. They could easily handle the 5, 10, and even 35 watt amplifers that supplied them.

Cheers,
Hammer