Our best ever

[Pascal.Pincosy]

This is a special shout-out and thank you to the manufacturers who made it possible for my company to provide the best sound that I have heard anywhere ever at a festival last weekend: Danley Sound Labs for creating the best top cabinets I've ever heard anywhere, the SH-50 Synergy Horn. Bassmaxx for creating a horn-loaded subwoofer (Trips and Deuces) with just the right amount of fuzz and growl to make it "sound" loud and full without actually being too loud. BSS for creating a DSP platform (Soundweb London) that allowed us to perform some DSP magic that couldn't be done on a normal loudspeaker management system, as well as giving us wireless tablet control from anywhere in the crowd. And Liberty Instruments, who's Praxis measurement system gave us the tools needed to bring it all together.



It took nearly 2 years of measurements and tweaking to get our DSP program just right. Careful measurement sessions, listening sessions, fine-tuning by ear, taking the system out for shows to find the trouble spots, and then repeating the whole process over and over and over until we reached the point last weekend when it all came togehter and we, along with everyone in attendance, were completely amazed at the results. The final master-stroke was the addition of stands which angled the tops down towards the crowd, vastly improving the VHF coverage.

We still have plenty of work to do, but all the low-hanging fruit have been plucked, and the rest will just be icing on the cake: tiny incremental improvements in our program that will further smooth and tighten the response in the mid-bass region and increase mid-high output capabilities without sacrificing quality. Better stands that will move the top cabinets forward so that the mains can't bounce sound off of the top of the subs, as well as allowing us the alter the angle of the tops to suit the space we are covering. And maybe some new subs that will extend our low end response below 40Hz.

Now all I need is a large acoustically treated listening room so I can listen to my own music when I want, instead of only getting to hear others tunes when we get booked for an event...

 

[Langston Holland]

Re: Our best ever

You even removed the grills from the SH50's, which does make them sound a little better. What you heard is the future of live sound reinforcement. There are so many advantages to arrayable point source loudspeakers and horns, but the few folks involved have a long way to go to make it as practical as the ubiquitous line array.

Welcome to the sound is more important than eating club. Then again, you may have joined before I did.

 

[Bennett Prescott]

Re: Our best ever

You even removed the grills from the SH50's, which does make them sound a little better.

Wouldn't you be able to get the same effect by adding a small VHF boost?

 

[Jack Arnott]

Re: Our best ever

Wouldn't you be able to get the same effect by adding a small VHF boost?

I would guess that the difference is not as much in frequency response, but in a small amount of sound bouncing off the screen, and back.


Congratulations Pascal.
And good for you for not settling, but keeping with it and making enough small changes, so that the difference was noticeable one over the long haul.

Regards, Jack

 

[Langston Holland]

Re: Our best ever

Wouldn't you be able to get the same effect by adding a small VHF boost?

Jack's right - there's something else going on that can't be accounted for with EQ. Many moons ago I made a low res measurement of a KF650z with (green) and without (blue) it's grill on. There's a clarity or openness that is diminished with the grill on to some extent. The least affect I've yet to hear from a grill is the one used by the ADRaudio M1225 wedges - very large holes with very open cell foam.



Pat Brown did some interesting measurements recently on perforated metal with various open area percentages.

 

[Pascal.Pincosy]

Re: Our best ever

You even removed the grills from the SH50's, which does make them sound a little better. What you heard is the future of live sound reinforcement. There are so many advantages to arrayable point source loudspeakers and horns, but the few folks involved have a long way to go to make it as practical as the ubiquitous line array.

Welcome to the sound is more important than eating club. Then again, you may have joined before I did.

We originally removed the grills as it made the speakers look cooler. We tend to remount them for corporate events. It was after one of these that I noticed the slight improvement in the sound quality, which couldn't be replicated with a bit of EQ.

And yes, I haven't been eating right in quite a few years... Just gotta get 4 more SH-50's and I'm going to treat myself to a tasty steak dinner. No really! I'm gonna do it!

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Our best ever

Jack's right - there's something else going on that can't be accounted for with EQ. Many moons ago I made a low res measurement of a KF650z with (green) and without (blue) it's grill on. There's a clarity or openness that is diminished with the grill on to some extent. The least affect I've yet to hear from a grill is the one used by the ADRaudio M1225 wedges - very large holes with very open cell foam.

View attachment 1909

Pat Brown did some interesting measurements recently on perforated metal with various open area percentages.

As with all things-it is a matter of a trade off.

Agreed that any loudspeaker sounds better (on the top end) without a grill.

But let's look at the purpose of the grill. Not so big a deal with the Sh50 (or many other Danley products), but a major issue is protection of the drivers. During transport and while at the gig. People just love to touch loudspeaker cones for some reason-especially dust caps-and the shinier the better. In installs (especially outdoors) it keeps bugs from building nests in the throat of the HF driver.

It also keeps stuff from getting poked into the cones during transport and keeps "rubbish" away from the driver.

For an install, it gives a cleaner look.

Agreed the Danleys look a lot "cooler" without the grills. And the drivers are hard to get at anyway.

The choice of the grill material is another matter. The more open the grill is, the less reflection going on and the "open" the HF is. But that means less steel, which means less strength.

Strength is not so important as in keeping stuff away from the drivers, but less strength also means that the grill has a tendency to "ring". Just thump your favorite loudspeaker with your knuckle and see how much it "rings".

One way to reduce the ring is to put an acoustically transparent foam behind the grill (some manufacturers put it in front of the grill). While this will reduce the ring-it also reduces the upper octave a bit. WHich is more important? To different people different things are.

Cost is another issue that enters into the equation. Once you have priced a grill for a decently large loudspeaker, you will see how expensive it gets.

Anyway, those are a few of the decisions that are looked at when choosing a "simple grill".

 

[Jack Arnott]

Re: Our best ever

As with all things-it is a matter of a trade off.
Agreed that any loudspeaker sounds better (on the top end) without a grill.
But let's look at the purpose of the grill. Not so big a deal with the Sh50

Hello Ivan, I hope I did not imply that it would have been better to leave them off in the first place.
And I think you did a good job covering the trade offs.

I do think that having it at the customers discretion to remove is the right way to go.

Agreed the Danleys look a lot "cooler" without the grills. And the drivers are hard to get at anyway.
The choice of the grill material is another matter. The more open the grill is, the less reflection going on and the "open" the HF is. But that means less steel, which means less strength.
Strength is not so important as in keeping stuff away from the drivers, but less strength also means that the grill has a tendency to "ring". Just thump your favorite loudspeaker with your knuckle and see how much it "rings".

While I agree with the coolness, I don't think I am the right person to ask. I am not a mainstream "cool" guy.

Another way to keep the grill from ringing is to have it bent, or curved under pressure.

Regards, Jack

 

[Ivan Beaver]

Re: Our best ever

Another way to keep the grill from ringing is to have it bent, or curved under pressure.

Regards, Jack

And along with that comes another compromise. If you take the normal cabinet and extend the top and bottom out a bit to have enough material to put the curve on, then you will end up with an edge reflection/defraction.

Does that matter? It depends on who you talk to. When sonic purity is the goal, the little things matter. And then we go and stick a sheet of metal with holes in it, on it HA-HA.

 

[Ben Lawrence]

Re: Our best ever

What are the large blue objects on stands? lasers? lights?

 

[Michael Quick]

Re: Our best ever

What are the large blue objects on stands? lasers? lights?

I'm guessing Haze. That's what it looks like, I could be wrong.

 

[Pascal.Pincosy]

Re: Our best ever

What are the large blue objects on stands? lasers? lights?

10 watt full color lasers courtesy of UV99. And lighting by Radiant Atmospheres...

Here's a little eye candy: