Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

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BJ James

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Jan 11, 2011
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A large outdoor deal in a few weeks entails some rather long cable runs- balanced line level up to around 1K' and 70v speaker lines close to the same. My measurements are only as accurate as the person on site telling me "about there" pointing at a general area -several locations for a mix of powered boxes and 70v. Accurate locations won't be known till day before the event.
My thought was to simply bring along a couple rolls of the appropriate cable, strip back to bare wire and wire nut to a premade connector with a short length of wire attached. It seems like a great idea to me as I can snip off as much off the roll as I need and carry on to the next location. Also would save me from having to use XLR y cables for a couple splits I need to make. Do some of you guys do this? Of course wire nuts would also be taped in case of rain. The cable can always be reused.
Any downsides?
BJ
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

I've certainaly done that with 70V stuff though we did the wiring/splitting in either weather proof junction boxes we attached to the speakers or on some of the big paging horns there already was a suitable box there. For line level signal cable then I see no reason not to so long as you get the right connector blocks and weather proof them, old telephone junction boxes were good for this kind of thing. G
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Wire nuts always seem to work best with solid wire instead of cable. I would think about appropriately sized crimp connectors.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

That's the joy of 70v systems. Connections and wire choice are easy and the higher voltage keeps them reliable. Practically any method works.

Are the powered and 70v systems the same audio signal?
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Milt Hathaway said:
Are the powered and 70v systems the same audio signal?
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Yes they are both coming out of a mixwiz. Balanced signal travels about 300' before the signal is split to the two systems. I do have a couple xlr iso transformers should I run into a ground loop problem.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

gordon mcgregor said:
I've certainaly done that with 70V stuff though we did the wiring/splitting in either weather proof junction boxes we attached to the speakers or on some of the big paging horns there already was a suitable box there. For line level signal cable then I see no reason not to so long as you get the right connector blocks and weather proof them, old telephone junction boxes were good for this kind of thing. G
Click to expand...

As far as I know, this is the way to pass an inspection........
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

BJ James said:
Yes they are both coming out of a mixwiz. Balanced signal travels about 300' before the signal is split to the two systems. I do have a couple xlr iso transformers should I run into a ground loop problem.
Click to expand...

I ask because you can get signal for the powered speakers from the 70v system by using low wattage transformers found on 8" (or similar) ceiling speakers. Input to the 1/2 Watt tap, output from the 4 Ohm tap (experimentation may be required). The transformer also isolates nicely.

I'm probably too late with this idea, however.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Milt Hathaway said:
I ask because you can get signal for the powered speakers from the 70v system by using low wattage transformers found on 8" (or similar) ceiling speakers. Input to the 1/2 Watt tap, output from the 4 Ohm tap (experimentation may be required). The transformer also isolates nicely.

I'm probably too late with this idea, however.
Click to expand...
Good plan. There may be one location that will require me to do this. I have a speaker level to line level DI for this. I plan on a trial run in the shop next week.


......and good point Dick re: inspection. It's only a few dollars each for the half dozen or so boxes I'd need. See, that's exactly why I posted my question.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Good to know that exists. In this case, after the initial split- the 2 types of speakers are in their own area's and the only place I may need to do a 70v-line level splice is at the far end of the 70v run in a location where I need to have a loud powered box. I'll use a speaker level to line level DI box in this case.
Thanks everyone for the great suggestions.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

I'm also going to be boxing up some 70V transformers for my 70v run. I finally found a local supplier of an outdoor box large enough. 4x4x4". Since my transformers have tabs rather than wires coming off them, my thought was to crimp some disconnects for the tabs and run the other ends to panel mount NL4's. I'd need 3. One for "incoming signal", one for "through to the next speaker" and one to the "local speaker" that is being transformed to 70V.
Would you do it differently? This is starting to cost more than I first anticipated. $50/ 100w transformer, $15 per outdoor box and 3x NL4P per unit, times it all by 6 that I need to start with. I plan on hanging each box onto a speaker handle or the speaker stand itself.
Any thoughts appreciated.
BJ
 
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Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

BJ James said:
I'm also going to be boxing up some 70V transformers for my 70v run. I finally found a local supplier of an outdoor box large enough. 4x4x4". Since my transformers have tabs rather than wires coming off them, my thought was to crimp some disconnects for the tabs and run the other ends to panel mount NL4's. I'd need 3. One for "incoming signal", one for "through to the next speaker" and one to the "local speaker" that is being transformed to 70V.
Would you do it differently? This is starting to cost more than I first anticipated. $50/ 100w transformer, $15 per outdoor box and 3x NL4P per unit, times it all by 6 that I need to start with. I plan on hanging each box onto a speaker handle or the speaker stand itself.
Any thoughts appreciated.
BJ
Click to expand...

Wait a minute. Are you not bumping up to 70V at the amp itself and sending that signal out over the long speaker cables?
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Milt Hathaway said:
Wait a minute. Are you not bumping up to 70V at the amp itself and sending that signal out over the long speaker cables?
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm using a PL340 which puts out close to 70v on it's own. My speakers are not 70v, thus I'm using transformers at the speakers to convert to 70v.
That part is already covered, just wrapping up small details now.
Any suggestions on my questions above?
Thanks
BJ
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

BJ James said:
Yes, I'm using a PL340 which puts out close to 70v on it's own. My speakers are not 70v, thus I'm using transformers at the speakers to convert to 70v.
That part is already covered, just wrapping up small details now.
Any suggestions on my questions above?
Thanks
BJ
Click to expand...

Oh, oh. Ok. I get it now. I thought the speakers were already 70v.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

A thought. Does the 70v transformer box need to be vented? I bought weather tight boxes to house them, and now am wondering if they will get hot.

One other thing: I'll have to split off my balanced line in about 3 or 4 different locations. Am I OK using my simple "y" splitters for this? I tried it in the shop last week using extreme lengths (over 1200') with no ill effects but am looking for potential "gotcha"'s.

Thanks,
BJ
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

BJ James said:
A thought. Does the 70v transformer box need to be vented? I bought weather tight boxes to house them, and now am wondering if they will get hot.
Click to expand...

They are typically found enclosed in water-tight compartments directly attached to the back of horn drivers. You shouldn't have any problems.

BJ James said:
One other thing: I'll have to split off my balanced line in about 3 or 4 different locations. Am I OK using my simple "y" splitters for this? I tried it in the shop last week using extreme lengths (over 1200') with no ill effects but am looking for potential "gotcha"'s.
Click to expand...

Ground loops will be your biggest problem here.
 
Re: Wire nutting connections and other strange thoughts

Milt Hathaway said:
Ground loops will be your biggest problem here.
Click to expand...
]
Thanks Milt.
XLR isolation transformers are the solution I hope. The 3 separate sources for electrical are within about 300' of each other, so I guess I could always run power to a common source if I'm really in a pinch.
 
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