+4 dBu or -10 dBV?
- Thread starter Craig Stone
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Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Craig,
Can you give us a little more information about what equipment you are patching together and the "big picture"--what you are trying to accomplish? So far you've only mentioned two different signal levels; that for consumer and for professional gear. Why?
Craig,
Can you give us a little more information about what equipment you are patching together and the "big picture"--what you are trying to accomplish? So far you've only mentioned two different signal levels; that for consumer and for professional gear. Why?
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Sorry. This is for a portable band system. I have compressors in my rack that are switchable between +4dBu and -10dBV. I'm using a Yamaha 24/14 mixer. I'm using insert cables to put the compressors in various channels. I've been running them at -10dBV, but I'm not sure if this is correct.
Sorry. This is for a portable band system. I have compressors in my rack that are switchable between +4dBu and -10dBV. I'm using a Yamaha 24/14 mixer. I'm using insert cables to put the compressors in various channels. I've been running them at -10dBV, but I'm not sure if this is correct.
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Craig,
You'll want to run them at +4dBu. -10dBV is typically referred to as "Prosumer" or "Consumer Line Level" and is common on consumer-level equipment; RCA connectors are usually involved.
-10dBV= (approx.) -8dBu (a 12dB difference from "Professional Line Level"!) A difference of 6dB equates to a halving of the voltage; -12dB would give you one-quarter of the original voltage (from 1.23V down to about 0.316V).
Craig,
You'll want to run them at +4dBu. -10dBV is typically referred to as "Prosumer" or "Consumer Line Level" and is common on consumer-level equipment; RCA connectors are usually involved.
-10dBV= (approx.) -8dBu (a 12dB difference from "Professional Line Level"!) A difference of 6dB equates to a halving of the voltage; -12dB would give you one-quarter of the original voltage (from 1.23V down to about 0.316V).
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Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
+4 dBu = 0VU= 1.22V or so.
+10dBV=0VU= .316V or so (from memory).
+4dBu is the more professional balanced interface standard, -10dBV was more unbalanced semi-Pro (aka not pro) lower voltage standard used for cheaper narrow format multitrack tape machines and associated bedroom recording gear.
These days +4 is the real deal and -10dBV is quickly becoming an archaic remnant of times past.
It's a big enough difference that you need to get it right... set it for +4 and if what you plug in isn't loud enough, throw it away.
JR
+4 dBu = 0VU= 1.22V or so.
+10dBV=0VU= .316V or so (from memory).
+4dBu is the more professional balanced interface standard, -10dBV was more unbalanced semi-Pro (aka not pro) lower voltage standard used for cheaper narrow format multitrack tape machines and associated bedroom recording gear.
These days +4 is the real deal and -10dBV is quickly becoming an archaic remnant of times past.
It's a big enough difference that you need to get it right... set it for +4 and if what you plug in isn't loud enough, throw it away.
JR
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
For reference:
dBu is a ratio of volts referenced to 0.775 V. This standard developed due to the fact that 1 mW is dissipated through a 600 Ohm load with a 0.775 V source.
dBV is a ratio of volts referenced to 1 V.
Formula to calculate either is as follows:
20 * log(V/Vref)
For reference:
dBu is a ratio of volts referenced to 0.775 V. This standard developed due to the fact that 1 mW is dissipated through a 600 Ohm load with a 0.775 V source.
dBV is a ratio of volts referenced to 1 V.
Formula to calculate either is as follows:
20 * log(V/Vref)
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
If you are math disabled, there are lots of great calculators on the internet...
Like this one, which I just used last night:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
If you are math disabled, there are lots of great calculators on the internet...
Like this one, which I just used last night:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Every technical link I've read on that site is golden, definitely one of the internet's best audio resources.
Every technical link I've read on that site is golden, definitely one of the internet's best audio resources.
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Slightly off topic: I was messing around with my bass rig last night, and I noticed my Rane DC-24--in the effects loop--was set to -10dBV. I switched it to +4dBu and the change in the sound was incredible! I didn't know those settings made that much of a difference.
Slightly off topic: I was messing around with my bass rig last night, and I noticed my Rane DC-24--in the effects loop--was set to -10dBV. I switched it to +4dBu and the change in the sound was incredible! I didn't know those settings made that much of a difference.
Craig,
The difference is purely volume, unless you were overloading one section or another or are now driving one section or another into non-linearity. If you like it more, great, but it's the same as turning up the volume knob.
The difference is purely volume, unless you were overloading one section or another or are now driving one section or another into non-linearity. If you like it more, great, but it's the same as turning up the volume knob.
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
It definitely sounds different; not just volume-wise. Maybe the amp just likes a little hotter signal. Not sure. It's in the effects loop of a MarkBass amplifier.
It definitely sounds different; not just volume-wise. Maybe the amp just likes a little hotter signal. Not sure. It's in the effects loop of a MarkBass amplifier.
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Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Thanks to a quick google search, the DC-24 is a dynamics processor and the +4dB position is unity gain... when set for -10dBV, they add approximately +12 dB of gain to the input, so every threshold setting will be shifted 12 dB by that switch. If the output doesn't get 12 dB quieter when you hit that switch, you were getting a bunch of compression in the -10dBV mode.
If you prefer the cooler unity gain setting, you may be one of the rare few, who don't like louder and more distorted.
Keep up the good work, it sounds like you may have potential...
JR
Thanks to a quick google search, the DC-24 is a dynamics processor and the +4dB position is unity gain... when set for -10dBV, they add approximately +12 dB of gain to the input, so every threshold setting will be shifted 12 dB by that switch. If the output doesn't get 12 dB quieter when you hit that switch, you were getting a bunch of compression in the -10dBV mode.
If you prefer the cooler unity gain setting, you may be one of the rare few, who don't like louder and more distorted.
Keep up the good work, it sounds like you may have potential...
JR
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
It seems I had the difference in +4dBu and -10dBV confused, though. I thought +4dBu was a hotter signal. Oh well. I'm learning.
edit: heh! Just played with the settings again. I feel kind of dumb now. After switching the compressor on and off a few times, it's pretty plain to see the -10dBV setting is quite a bit louder. :blush:
There might just be hope for me, after all.
It seems I had the difference in +4dBu and -10dBV confused, though. I thought +4dBu was a hotter signal. Oh well. I'm learning.
edit: heh! Just played with the settings again. I feel kind of dumb now. After switching the compressor on and off a few times, it's pretty plain to see the -10dBV setting is quite a bit louder. :blush:
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Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
+4 dBu is the hotter signal level, which is why the switch adds 12 dB of gain when in -10dBV mode.
JR
There might just be hope for me, after all.
It seems I had the difference in +4dBu and -10dBV confused, though. I thought +4dBu was a hotter signal. Oh well. I'm learning.
+4 dBu is the hotter signal level, which is why the switch adds 12 dB of gain when in -10dBV mode.
JR
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
Try to think of it as, "What signal level is this device expecting to see?" The components of any piece of gear are designed to operate within a certain voltage range...a sort of sweet spot, if you will. In our case, the sweet spot is between the device's noise floor (-80dB, for example) and unwanted distortion (+22dB, as seen in many mixers). The various boosting (+12dB for -10dBV expected input) and padding (+4dBu padded down by 50dB for Mic Level uses) allows for this sweet spot to be attained with more sources.
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
No - those are both "line levels". The +4dBU is "professional" line level, and the -10dBv is "Consumer" line level.
Re: +4 dBu or -10 dBV?
No... -10dBV was the nominal line level standard for small format tape recorders (remember them?) and associated bedroom recording gear.
JR
No... -10dBV was the nominal line level standard for small format tape recorders (remember them?) and associated bedroom recording gear.
JR