Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

I

Ian Coughlin

Sophomore
Jan 11, 2011
133
0
16
New York
www.dtgentertainment.com
The other day I lost a monitor on one of my SOS rig gigs. Upset about this and at myself for not having any processing/compression/limiting on this speaker channel I got to thinking. I then had a small epiphany and realized how I have only focused on my "outputs" (everything after the mixer, speaker alignment, eqs, compression/limiting, pretty much everything a Driverack can do to a speakers sound). DJ moment? :uhoh: Thinking further into this I realized I've (and every dj i can think of) been running my microphones straight into my mixers mic input! All this time following you guys and these boards you would think I would have picked up on this sooner!

I have a small 4 space rack that accompanies my sos rig and would like to add a 1 space, 2 channel dynamic processor. I know/own DBX products and have been happy with the results which led me to their website. I was looking at the 1066, the mic on channel 1 and the monitor speaker on channel 2. I know this will work as intended for channel 2/the monitor speaker but not sure what to do with channel one/the mic.

I was advised heavy compression, 3:1 ratio, fast attack and release, does this sound right?

What processing (such as compression, attack, release) do you apply to mic channels?
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Does the 1066 have a microphone pre-amp, or does your DJ mixer have an 'insert' on the microphone inputs? If the answer to both questions is "no" then you'll not be using the 1066 for the microphone channel.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Ian Coughlin said:
I realized I've [snip] been running my microphones straight into my mixers mic input!
Click to expand...

Umm..yeah, that's pretty much the way it's supposed to work. Microphones into a mic preamp on the console. If you need dynamics on individual channels you use and insert on the channel or bus them to a group that has dynamics inserted. Putting a compressor or limiter in line with the mic before the preamp isn't really standard practice.

And chances are that it wouldn't have saved your monitor channel. Limiting or reducing the volume of the monitor would have saved your monitor.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Justice C. Bigler said:
Umm..yeah, that's pretty much the way it's supposed to work. Microphones into a mic preamp on the console. If you need dynamics on individual channels you use and insert on the channel or bus them to a group that has dynamics inserted. Putting a compressor or limiter in line with the mic before the preamp isn't really standard practice.

And chances are that it wouldn't have saved your monitor channel. Limiting or reducing the volume of the monitor would have saved your monitor.
Click to expand...

Justice, I'm not running a live sound rig. The mixer in question is a Rane TTM-57SL, there aren't channels and inserts like your thinking. Also the monitor blowing was most likely to related to the DJ and completely irrelevant to the microphone question.

I was just thinking of how to make my small SOS rig as fool proof as possible since i won't be out with it on all gigs. We know dynamics on the monitor will be effective but not worth it on a mic for this set up?
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

I'm confused at what I see as a logic jump - you want dynamics processing on a microphone to protect a monitor from blowing? If you want loudspeaker protection, the only way to accomplish that is with some kind of loudspeaker processor set for limiting on the output of your mixer before the amp/speaker. Compression usually contributes to speaker damage as it raises the average power delivered to the device, and yet is not usually fast enough to squash transients to protect from over excursion. Compression can also lead to increased feedback.

If you want a compressed vocal sound, use a compressor. If you want speaker protection, use a speaker processor with limiting capability.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

That looks like a pretty good solution, Silas, to the OP's problem at a great price, but I'm curious - What are "Drive" and "Density" (controls on the front of the unit) as they relate to compression? Marketing talk?
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

TJ Cornish said:
I'm confused at what I see as a logic jump - you want dynamics processing on a microphone to protect a monitor from blowing? If you want loudspeaker protection, the only way to accomplish that is with some kind of loudspeaker processor set for limiting on the output of your mixer before the amp/speaker. Compression usually contributes to speaker damage as it raises the average power delivered to the device, and yet is not usually fast enough to squash transients to protect from over excursion. Compression can also lead to increased feedback.

If you want a compressed vocal sound, use a compressor. If you want speaker protection, use a speaker processor with limiting capability.
Click to expand...

+0.5

The average power part is right on. Compression can lead to increased average power, and that can make thermal failure of loudspeaker components more likely.

As for the other part, there are plenty of compressors with sufficiently rapid attack times to protect from over-excursion. Excursion related phenomena are typically only an issue below 150Hz. The envelope energy windows in this area are plenty long enough for a compressor to react.

To the OP, as TJ says, use the right tool for the job.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Phil Graham said:
+0.5

The average power part is right on. Compression can lead to increased average power, and that can make thermal failure of loudspeaker components more likely.

As for the other part, there are plenty of compressors with sufficiently rapid attack times to protect from over-excursion. Excursion related phenomena are typically only an issue below 150Hz. The envelope energy windows in this area are plenty long enough for a compressor to react.

To the OP, as TJ says, use the right tool for the job.
Click to expand...
I will defer to your larger experience than mine on what's available in the field of compressors, however I would postulate that a lot of compressors set for vocals have a non-zero attack time.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

TJ Cornish said:
I will defer to your larger experience than mine on what's available in the field of compressors, however I would postulate that a lot of compressors set for vocals have a non-zero attack time.
Click to expand...

TJ,

You don't need, or want, a compressor with a zero attack time for LF excursion control. The peak excursion experience by the driver will be multiple 10s of milliseconds after the "start" of the waveform envelope function.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

TJ Cornish said:
I'm confused at what I see as a logic jump - you want dynamics processing on a microphone to protect a monitor from blowing? If you want loudspeaker protection, the only way to accomplish that is with some kind of loudspeaker processor set for limiting on the output of your mixer before the amp/speaker. Compression usually contributes to speaker damage as it raises the average power delivered to the device, and yet is not usually fast enough to squash transients to protect from over excursion. Compression can also lead to increased feedback.

If you want a compressed vocal sound, use a compressor. If you want speaker protection, use a speaker processor with limiting capability.
Click to expand...

Sorry to sound confusing in the OP. The mic and monitor are irrelivant other than I was hoping I could find a [the right] device that could do both in one rack space but it seems that theres no such thing. The dbx 1066 comes close but there is not mic pre-amp option as Tim pointed out. I also do use limiting (not compression) on the loudspeakers, I just didn't phrase my self well.

Salis, looked at the 286S as well but would require two rack spaces becuase I would need another device for the monitor limiting.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Ian Coughlin said:
Sorry to sound confusing in the OP. The mic and monitor are irrelivant other than I was hoping I could find a [the right] device that could do both in one rack space but it seems that theres no such thing. The dbx 1066 comes close but there is not mic pre-amp option as Tim pointed out. I also do use limiting (not compression) on the loudspeakers, I just didn't phrase my self well.

Salis, looked at the 286S as well but would require two rack spaces becuase I would need another device for the monitor limiting.
Click to expand...
I would also caution against a device used for limiting that would have exposed knobs for an end user to "adjust". In my opinion, speaker protection is only effective if you can enforce that it stays in the signal chain with the appropriate settings.

Thinking slightly outside the box, many racks have rails on both sides. Have you considered mounting a Driverack on the back side of the rack? If your gear is shallow enough, that may work.

Even outsider the box than that would be a DSP such as a Soundweb that could do many many functions in one rack space, but at the expense of tactile controls.

Either that or get a bigger rack.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

How about something likes this, Ian?

Personally, I would want some kind of device that, when a known level is exceeded (voltage, SPL), turns down the speaker volume until the operator lets up. In a pre-established rig with known components, this could be achieved at home base before the unit is sent out.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

Justice C. Bigler said:
Umm..yeah, that's pretty much the way it's supposed to work. Microphones into a mic preamp on the console. If you need dynamics on individual channels you use and insert on the channel or bus them to a group that has dynamics inserted. Putting a compressor or limiter in line with the mic before the preamp isn't really standard practice. And chances are that it wouldn't have saved your monitor channel. Limiting or reducing the volume of the monitor would have saved your monitor.
Click to expand...
So wait... I have a spare 3 space rack, and I was thinking about tossing my wireless in there with a compressor and a feedback eliminator, and then wiring it all up so there is only 1 ac plug and 1 xlr coming out. My wireless goes out lots and is hooked up from anything from a DJ mixer to a Behringer 502 to a Yorkville M810 to A&H consoles. I wanted something I could set to relatively sound decent and would be simple for everyone to use no matter if its speeches at wedding to guest speakers at corporate events. BUT I am thinking like the guitarist I am and just want to daisy chain them all together... That's prob not gonna work to well is it?
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

If you can get enough level out of your wireless receiver then it may work, as some receivers can put out a line level signal. Otherwise, as I think you're guessing, you are missing the pre amp in your hypothetical signal chain.
 
Re: Wired/Wireless microphone dynamic processing

TJ Cornish said:
If you can get enough level out of your wireless receiver then it may work, as some receivers can put out a line level signal. Otherwise, as I think you're guessing, you are missing the pre amp in your hypothetical signal chain.
Click to expand...

And, most people have no idea what they're doing (talking dry rentals here), so all the additional knobs and feedback elimination may actually be a detriment to the system's usability. Keep it simple for rentals. For your own use, do what you want.
 
Top Bottom