Who knew?
It has modular inputs (up to 12) and outputs (up to 8).
http://www.toaelectronics.com/d-901.asp
It has modular inputs (up to 12) and outputs (up to 8).
http://www.toaelectronics.com/d-901.asp
Toa has a digital mixer
- Thread starter mark anderson
- Start date
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
hmmm...interesting. This could be useful in a system redesign that I am working on. Thanks for posting.
hmmm...interesting. This could be useful in a system redesign that I am working on. Thanks for posting.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
TOA has had digital mixers and DSP devices for years, in fact I think they had the one of the, if not the, first large format digital mixers with the ix-9000 in 1990 and I believe the first digital processing system with the SAORI in 1988.
TOA has had digital mixers and DSP devices for years, in fact I think they had the one of the, if not the, first large format digital mixers with the ix-9000 in 1990 and I believe the first digital processing system with the SAORI in 1988.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Yes, TOA was early to the game, but IIRC very expensive. It wasn't until Yamaha developed a lower priced digital mixer that the market took root and started growing.
JR
edit- that is really interesting ... it's a digital version of their standard modular mixer/amp series. It requires a whole new series of modules too. This offers some of the same flexibility of the analog series of mixer/amps, where you can customize mix of inputs and outputs. As with the analog mixer/amps it will probably be somewhat more expensive that dedicated solutions, but the flexibility to configure on the fly, or after the fact should be attractive.
I never anticipated this (a blind spot in my crystal ball). The install market is pretty conservative and tight with their money.. I guess the cost and acceptance of digital has progressed enough to make this practical, unless they are once again ahead of the market price-wise. The fact that all the inputs are duals, shows the influence of consumer electronics chip design (mostly stereo sources and paths).
I don't see this stealing too much business from basic 900 series, but it may find a niche if it can replace some cheap generic stand alone DSP finding their way into fixed installs (like Ivan is always complaining about).
/edit
Yes, TOA was early to the game, but IIRC very expensive. It wasn't until Yamaha developed a lower priced digital mixer that the market took root and started growing.
JR
edit- that is really interesting ... it's a digital version of their standard modular mixer/amp series. It requires a whole new series of modules too. This offers some of the same flexibility of the analog series of mixer/amps, where you can customize mix of inputs and outputs. As with the analog mixer/amps it will probably be somewhat more expensive that dedicated solutions, but the flexibility to configure on the fly, or after the fact should be attractive.
I never anticipated this (a blind spot in my crystal ball). The install market is pretty conservative and tight with their money.. I guess the cost and acceptance of digital has progressed enough to make this practical, unless they are once again ahead of the market price-wise. The fact that all the inputs are duals, shows the influence of consumer electronics chip design (mostly stereo sources and paths).
I don't see this stealing too much business from basic 900 series, but it may find a niche if it can replace some cheap generic stand alone DSP finding their way into fixed installs (like Ivan is always complaining about).
/edit
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Re: Toa has a digital mixer
So there's Toa and A&H i-DR. Who else is making a mixer in a snake head? I must admit I'm enamored with the idea. There are a hand full of details I'd like to see like a talk back mic and a cue send. Maybe bi-directional midi control and interface virtualization for effects you can't live without. But beyond that, I can't think of any advantages to running a snake to FOH. Am I missing something?
So there's Toa and A&H i-DR. Who else is making a mixer in a snake head? I must admit I'm enamored with the idea. There are a hand full of details I'd like to see like a talk back mic and a cue send. Maybe bi-directional midi control and interface virtualization for effects you can't live without. But beyond that, I can't think of any advantages to running a snake to FOH. Am I missing something?
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
The D-901 has been out for many years, I want to say around 2003-2004. I've got a few clients that have them in installs and they're certainly reliable. Not really any different in concept than any other install-centric DSP though... Oh, and the software sucks.
Also, the M-9000 series of amps from TOA also has inbuilt DSP (it's actually built into the I/O cards), but it is crippled by a poor front panel UI and terrible software.
The D-901 has been out for many years, I want to say around 2003-2004. I've got a few clients that have them in installs and they're certainly reliable. Not really any different in concept than any other install-centric DSP though... Oh, and the software sucks.
Also, the M-9000 series of amps from TOA also has inbuilt DSP (it's actually built into the I/O cards), but it is crippled by a poor front panel UI and terrible software.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Well, a copper snake allows things like intercom, analog lighting control (almost disappeared by now), speaker timers, and a few other types of signals that might be useful for a show. Eventually I expect most of this to run on wifi or something like it.
Well, a copper snake allows things like intercom, analog lighting control (almost disappeared by now), speaker timers, and a few other types of signals that might be useful for a show. Eventually I expect most of this to run on wifi or something like it.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
+100! I had to reprogram one of these in an install. It was absolutely miserable. I couldn't figure out for the life of me how actually get it to do what I wanted and you had to constantly upload and download the settings from your PC to the unit to program, it was not real time.
In the same application I would recommend the Rane RPM stuff. The gain structure of those things can be funky, but the software is way more intuitive and usable. We also use the BSS BLU stuff at my day job which is similar to the RANE, but the reliability has been mediocre.
+100! I had to reprogram one of these in an install. It was absolutely miserable. I couldn't figure out for the life of me how actually get it to do what I wanted and you had to constantly upload and download the settings from your PC to the unit to program, it was not real time.
In the same application I would recommend the Rane RPM stuff. The gain structure of those things can be funky, but the software is way more intuitive and usable. We also use the BSS BLU stuff at my day job which is similar to the RANE, but the reliability has been mediocre.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Well, there are others, Yamaha has the DSP5D and other variants of their install line of products. Of course, I work at MediaMatrix and we have had this kind of thing going on with remote control since the mid 1990's. Granted, the newer N series products, with the integration of "build your own" iPad user interface and "build your own" signal flow offers a lot of flexibility and it allows whoever is building the configurations to do it the way they want. (you want 15 parametric EQ's on every input? It seems like overkill to me, but go ahead... here are the tools.) Also, the MediaMatrix N platform supports fader packs from J.L. Cooper, if you need real handles, and you can dynamically change what channels and/or functions are attached to what handles at what times. If you wanted a complete mixing console with the NION DSP engines behind it, an Australian company called Smart AV has their Smart Console which does exactly this. One of the huge benefits of using something like the NION platform is that it is basically infinitely expandable and infinitely configurable and offers interesting options that are totally unheard of by others.
In my spare time I've been working on setting up a pair of NION n6 Dante units with 32 inputs by 16 outputs (configured in this system as 8 stereo) with a friendly user interface for live operations. I've chosen the NIONs with Dante because I can directly connect a computer that has the Dante Virtual Soundcard via a simple wired Ethernet connection and instantly do track recording or track playback for every input channel in the system. Or, with the flexibility of Dante, I can take other input devices that connect to the Dante network and just bring them into the system via the network connection instead of being required to use analog sources. This is an exciting little project and it will be fun to give it a try one of these days.
Well, there are others, Yamaha has the DSP5D and other variants of their install line of products. Of course, I work at MediaMatrix and we have had this kind of thing going on with remote control since the mid 1990's. Granted, the newer N series products, with the integration of "build your own" iPad user interface and "build your own" signal flow offers a lot of flexibility and it allows whoever is building the configurations to do it the way they want. (you want 15 parametric EQ's on every input? It seems like overkill to me, but go ahead... here are the tools.) Also, the MediaMatrix N platform supports fader packs from J.L. Cooper, if you need real handles, and you can dynamically change what channels and/or functions are attached to what handles at what times. If you wanted a complete mixing console with the NION DSP engines behind it, an Australian company called Smart AV has their Smart Console which does exactly this. One of the huge benefits of using something like the NION platform is that it is basically infinitely expandable and infinitely configurable and offers interesting options that are totally unheard of by others.
In my spare time I've been working on setting up a pair of NION n6 Dante units with 32 inputs by 16 outputs (configured in this system as 8 stereo) with a friendly user interface for live operations. I've chosen the NIONs with Dante because I can directly connect a computer that has the Dante Virtual Soundcard via a simple wired Ethernet connection and instantly do track recording or track playback for every input channel in the system. Or, with the flexibility of Dante, I can take other input devices that connect to the Dante network and just bring them into the system via the network connection instead of being required to use analog sources. This is an exciting little project and it will be fun to give it a try one of these days.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Thanks for adding that. I've missed the MediaMatrix products as installs aren't my gig. I'm only finding used product on Google so I have to assume it's a closely held dealer market. I'm testing my rack today, I might need a new mixer after some problems this last week. I can't see replacing what I have with more of the same and really like these ipad controllable systems.
Is there a popular term for these snake head mixers? Maybe we need to get something in popular use so no one can trademark the category.
Thanks for adding that. I've missed the MediaMatrix products as installs aren't my gig. I'm only finding used product on Google so I have to assume it's a closely held dealer market. I'm testing my rack today, I might need a new mixer after some problems this last week. I can't see replacing what I have with more of the same and really like these ipad controllable systems.
Is there a popular term for these snake head mixers? Maybe we need to get something in popular use so no one can trademark the category.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
I like the term "onstage DSP" for the "brain" in a PM1D system, A&H Ilive, etc.
I like the term "onstage DSP" for the "brain" in a PM1D system, A&H Ilive, etc.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
"Onstage dsp" could be almost anything from a keyboard to a lake processor. I see "mix rack" bantered about but that looks like at Avid product name but I've seen it attached to A&H stuff too. "snake head mixer" seems to be antiquated as the idea of a major snake will probably go away although sub snakes will still be popular. "Mixer head" maybe? What do you call a mixer with no knobs or faders? I'm guessing that in three years the market will be flooded by the likes of presonus, alesis, motu, and the others with a "digital mix head" type product. So what is the generic name that gets assigned?
"Onstage dsp" could be almost anything from a keyboard to a lake processor. I see "mix rack" bantered about but that looks like at Avid product name but I've seen it attached to A&H stuff too. "snake head mixer" seems to be antiquated as the idea of a major snake will probably go away although sub snakes will still be popular. "Mixer head" maybe? What do you call a mixer with no knobs or faders? I'm guessing that in three years the market will be flooded by the likes of presonus, alesis, motu, and the others with a "digital mix head" type product. So what is the generic name that gets assigned?
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Context, context, context. We use wind-up crank stands for many things. Whether the term is used together with the words speaker, light, trussing, etc determines what it really is we're talking about. Not all people even get the term "snake" or "mixer head" either, as they call it "multicore" and "stage box".
If you say "onstage DSP" while you're talking about the mixer, and whoever you're talking to thinks you're talking about the system crossover...well, perhaps they shouldn't go near either :lol:
When we are talking about our PM1D system and refer to the "onstage DSP" for it we either call it the "mixer brain" or we use it's product name, which is DSP1D. No techs patching monitors to keyboards yet!8)~
~
I think most reasonable techs will understand what you mean regardless
Best regards,
Kristian Johnsen
Context, context, context. We use wind-up crank stands for many things. Whether the term is used together with the words speaker, light, trussing, etc determines what it really is we're talking about. Not all people even get the term "snake" or "mixer head" either, as they call it "multicore" and "stage box".
If you say "onstage DSP" while you're talking about the mixer, and whoever you're talking to thinks you're talking about the system crossover...well, perhaps they shouldn't go near either :lol:
When we are talking about our PM1D system and refer to the "onstage DSP" for it we either call it the "mixer brain" or we use it's product name, which is DSP1D. No techs patching monitors to keyboards yet!8)~
~I think most reasonable techs will understand what you mean regardless
Best regards,
Kristian Johnsen
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
How about "remote control mix engine" and "onstage analog I/O"?
How about "remote control mix engine" and "onstage analog I/O"?
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
Yeah, the MediaMatrix stuff does have a fairly closed dealer market because it is install driven and it can be pretty much as complicated as you want to make it. If you just want to do some basic and easy stuff, then it is simple... but if you want to go ahead and start digging down into it, you can pretty much choose how deep you want the rabbit hole to go. It can get fairly complicated when you start making things happen with SNMP monitoring the Ethernet ports on network switches and Python scripting.
Generally I see the people who take a little time and really feel out what you can do with a N series MediaMatrix system quit using other systems completely. I've seen people take out old MediaMatrix M series systems AND the 3rd party control systems and replace the whole thing with a new N series system. This has the benefit of one system configuration instead of two. This makes everything a lot simpler since there are no longer dependencies between the control system and the MediaMatrix audio DSP since they are combined. Anyhow, I digress...
I kind of like Kristin's "remote control mix engine" term for these systems since I feel that does a good job of thoroughly describing what they actually do.
Yeah, the MediaMatrix stuff does have a fairly closed dealer market because it is install driven and it can be pretty much as complicated as you want to make it. If you just want to do some basic and easy stuff, then it is simple... but if you want to go ahead and start digging down into it, you can pretty much choose how deep you want the rabbit hole to go. It can get fairly complicated when you start making things happen with SNMP monitoring the Ethernet ports on network switches and Python scripting.
Generally I see the people who take a little time and really feel out what you can do with a N series MediaMatrix system quit using other systems completely. I've seen people take out old MediaMatrix M series systems AND the 3rd party control systems and replace the whole thing with a new N series system. This has the benefit of one system configuration instead of two. This makes everything a lot simpler since there are no longer dependencies between the control system and the MediaMatrix audio DSP since they are combined. Anyhow, I digress...
I kind of like Kristin's "remote control mix engine" term for these systems since I feel that does a good job of thoroughly describing what they actually do.
Re: Toa has a digital mixer
even just "mix engine" works. How about "rack mount mix engine." When alesis, presonus, yamaha, roland, a&h, behringer, and the rest (misspellings trademark of me) all release their version it'll be nice to have a generic name.
even just "mix engine" works. How about "rack mount mix engine." When alesis, presonus, yamaha, roland, a&h, behringer, and the rest (misspellings trademark of me) all release their version it'll be nice to have a generic name.