klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Got some bss's you want to sell? There hard to find.

Is the square 1 a entry level like of KT? I was looking at some 504's, even have one from a friend, but don't like the metering, and they seem touchy.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Hi Alan,
What are you going to use them for? My favorite all around VCA compressor is the DBX 1066. This is the 2 channel per rack space thing again but sound and features are important to me. The VCA is really clean and with the adjustable attack and release times you can pretty much get any sound that type of compressor will do. There are 3 versions: Made in USA, Taiwan, and China. I own some of each and all are excellent for what they are. There are units I like better on specific things but a 1066 will always work. I usually back the attack down 1/4 turn as a place to start for most things because they are really fast and will flatten the life out of things in a hurry. Just my .02
-Eric
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Alan Sledzieski said:
Got some bss's you want to sell? There hard to find.

Is the square 1 a entry level like of KT? I was looking at some 504's, even have one from a friend, but don't like the metering, and they seem touchy.
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Yeah, the SQ1 series isn't much to write home about compared to the higher end KT stuff. I picked up my DPR404 from Evan K's FleaBay auction a while back and I ain't parting with it ;) Lately I've been using it on my SC48 inserted on the vocal dual mono group since I can't link plugins on a paired mono group. I hope Avid fixes that someday so I don't have to insert analog outboard to have linked compression. If they do, I might sell it. But the BSS sounds great in any case.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Eric Cagle said:
Hi Alan,
What are you going to use them for? My favorite all around VCA compressor is the DBX 1066. This is the 2 channel per rack space thing again but sound and features are important to me. The VCA is really clean and with the adjustable attack and release times you can pretty much get any sound that type of compressor will do. There are 3 versions: Made in USA, Taiwan, and China. I own some of each and all are excellent for what they are. There are units I like better on specific things but a 1066 will always work. I usually back the attack down 1/4 turn as a place to start for most things because they are really fast and will flatten the life out of things in a hurry. Just my .02
-Eric
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Just need some comp when needed, getting a little worried about the dbx made in china stuff, been using some of them items as doorstops unfortunatly, 1046's mainly. I have a 1066, just looking for more channels of comp. in a rack space. I have two dl441's and a bss 404, now.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Or the Drawmer quad comp. These can be had for $100 a channel (ish) if your patient.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

The 1046 is a compromise to get 4 in a single rack space. No attack and release control and I am not fond of their particular fixed settings on anything. My critical listening experience has been in the studio on very high resolution Westlake Audio monitors. The 1066 was the only VCA compressor in the under $650 class that I liked at all for a general tool. I still prefer FET and Optical units as a general rule but a UREI 1176 or LA-2A or better is extreme overkill for live sound and several rack spaces for 1 channel. I have not used the Drawmer and BSS stuff so I am curious as to how they sound. I have used the upper line Klark 500 units live and liked them alot but never tried the Square One series. When I started mixing digitally in the studio my Aphex gates and DBX 160xt's and 1066's found their way into my PA racks and have all worked very well.

All of the other VCA units I have used seemed to dull the sound or get grainy when they went into any gain reduction at all. I can actually hear it happening on my Mackie Fussion rig which suprised me that it was even detectable in a live sound situation. In all honesty I doubt many people would ever notice in a live situation, even most engineers. In the studio however you hear it. I could make the 1066 be transparent or sound like a 160xt or almost any other sound a VCA unit would do. Inserted across the stereo outs of a PA at a 2:1- 3:1 ratio, you can hit the contour button and let a little more kik come through without triggering compression and then back down the attack and release times a little and really smooth out a mix. Very natural sounding, smooth vocals on top without killing anybody if the singer screams.

If you have a recording of some unprocessed individual tracks try listening to each of your units through a decent set of headphones. Play with the settings and learn what it actually does to the sound. Can you get what you are listening for on any given unit? Compression is an art form in itself. Drums get boxy fast and can go from a cannon to a thud quickly with too fast of an attack time or too high of a ratio. Bass and accoustic guitars get dull and lifeless quickly as well. When you slow the attack you let more of the transients through and get the articulation and feel of the performance rather than just saving headroom and protecting drivers. The release times play a big part on how "natural" or "effecty" the processing sounds as well. Fixed settings are somebody's general compromise between headroom and musicality. One size does not fit all and the "auto" settings that follow the envelope are a compromise as well.

I know I go into way more detail than just the simple question you asked but you bought a console that will allow you to hear these subtle and not so subtle details as you go along. Even more so as the quality of your loudspeakers goes up. Because you could spend thousands less and get more features than you have on the APB I have to assume you purchased it for the sonic quality. If that is the case you are going to find that you are going to hear very noticeable differences in things like different brands of compressors, gates, and even direct boxes.

As a final note, I have to warn you to not get so anal about very subtle things and take the fun out of the craft but rather appreciate and enjoy the significant sonic improvements your purchases have made. It is about the music rather than specs after all.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

You guys keep mentioning the Rane C4 so I had to check it out. It looks really good on paper. It has all of the features I use and then some. The variable knee is interesting and the built in side chain EQ is a nice plus as well. I use the DBX 1066 as my standard of what will work for me. Has anybody used both? How does the Rane sound? I might have to try one out.

I can't stress the importance of variable attack and release settings on VCA compressors enough. A VCA compressor is very fast acting which is great for limiting and saving headroom in the mix but it will rapidly flatten the life out of everything if you are not careful. This is why very expensive optical units are so popular in the studios. They react slower and sound more natural.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Eric Cagle said:
I can't stress the importance of variable attack and release settings on VCA compressors enough. A VCA compressor is very fast acting which is great for limiting and saving headroom in the mix but it will rapidly flatten the life out of everything if you are not careful. This is why very expensive optical units are so popular in the studios. They react slower and sound more natural.
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But we're talking about live sound here. It's a far different ballgame than studio life. What works well in the studio is often not suitable for live sound reinforcement and vice versa. Many of us in live sound tend to purposely use fast attack/release compressors with high ratios on vocals because you do need to really clamp down when you reach a certain threshold but want things relatively uncompressed below that threshold. If studio style compression was truly warranted in live sound, you'd be seeing a lot more LA-2s and 1176s out there in processing racks. But you don't. Keep in mind that we're talking about driving large powerful speaker systems here, not multitrack recorders or a mix down to 2-track that's going to be played through home & car stereo. A different set of rules apply, at least in my opinion.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Greg Cameron said:
But we're talking about live sound here. It's a far different ballgame than studio life. What works well in the studio is often not suitable for live sound reinforcement and vice versa. Many of us in live sound tend to purposely use fast attack/release compressors with high ratios on vocals because you do need to really clamp down when you reach a certain threshold but want things relatively uncompressed below that threshold. If studio style compression was truly warranted in live sound, you'd be seeing a lot more LA-2s and 1176s out there in processing racks. But you don't. Keep in mind that we're talking about driving large powerful speaker systems here, not multitrack recorders or a mix down to 2-track that's going to be played through home & car stereo. A different set of rules apply, at least in my opinion.
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I propose a summary:

Here in live sound, we like dynamics.
 
Re: klark teknik square one dynamics SQ1D ???

Greg Cameron said:
But we're talking about live sound here. It's a far different ballgame than studio life. What works well in the studio is often not suitable for live sound reinforcement and vice versa. Many of us in live sound tend to purposely use fast attack/release compressors with high ratios on vocals because you do need to really clamp down when you reach a certain threshold but want things relatively uncompressed below that threshold. If studio style compression was truly warranted in live sound, you'd be seeing a lot more LA-2s and 1176s out there in processing racks. But you don't. Keep in mind that we're talking about driving large powerful speaker systems here, not multitrack recorders or a mix down to 2-track that's going to be played through home & car stereo. A different set of rules apply, at least in my opinion.
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Hi Greg,
I totally agree with you on vocals, especially if they don't know how to work a mic. However I would be willing to bet most everyone here is compressing a direct signal (as opposed to mic'd cabinet) from a bass guitar though and not just taking off the peaks. Noticeable improvements can be made with attack and release control. The DBX 160 series had a big fan base there because it was slow enough to be plug and play and leave some of the dynamic content in, in other words it sounded pretty good. Still not nearly as good as the 1066 or KT 500 series etc where you can compress a little more to tighten up the sound and then slow the attack down enough so that the Popping and slapping of a funk riff stands tall. If you find a need to tame an accoustic guitar a bit and get it up in the mix (which I prefer not to but sometimes have to) the same applies unless you want it to be dull and lifeless. I am not a fan at all of compressing drums but in a buss output situation you can lower the threshold a tad, use a low ratio, and back the attack down a bit and still have enough limiting to protect drivers and ears while not sounding like cardboard when in gain reduction. I still try to stay out of the limiter as much as possible unless I am specifically going for a "Radio" sound.
 
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