Re: Foh eq questions.
Tim what worries me is that topic was started in 2010, 1 unit is a 09 the other a 07
Tim what worries me is that topic was started in 2010, 1 unit is a 09 the other a 07
Foh eq questions.
- Thread starter Alan Sledzieski
- Start date
Re: Foh eq questions.
And it's an anomaly, or there would be folks with pitchforks and torches headed to England.
Part of reality is that shit breaks and fails, even our precious expensive tools... although they tend to fail less than many other things. Nothing is risk-free, and everything will need eventual repair or replacement. All the top designs like the FCS960 or DN360 are getting long in the tooth and I'd wager that new production is very miniscule as the audio industry continues its inexorable move to the digital realm. Anything you buy will be a crap shoot, but that there haven't been major regional companies screaming about their FCS960s or DN360s means that you're probably safe buying either model. If I were buying for my personal use I'd get the BSS.
BTW, the BSS Opal (FCS-966) isn't the worst EQ in the world, but it doesn't work/sound like a budget 960 which is why you'll find folks that diss them. We've got a couple left over; we had more of them and sold them off when national act monitor guys expressed a stronger preference for DN360 or dbx because of the way the EQ filters reacted to fader moves. They're not bad EQs, they just aren't 966's.... but I'd suggest you audition one before committing to a purchase.
And it's an anomaly, or there would be folks with pitchforks and torches headed to England.
Part of reality is that shit breaks and fails, even our precious expensive tools... although they tend to fail less than many other things. Nothing is risk-free, and everything will need eventual repair or replacement. All the top designs like the FCS960 or DN360 are getting long in the tooth and I'd wager that new production is very miniscule as the audio industry continues its inexorable move to the digital realm. Anything you buy will be a crap shoot, but that there haven't been major regional companies screaming about their FCS960s or DN360s means that you're probably safe buying either model. If I were buying for my personal use I'd get the BSS.
BTW, the BSS Opal (FCS-966) isn't the worst EQ in the world, but it doesn't work/sound like a budget 960 which is why you'll find folks that diss them. We've got a couple left over; we had more of them and sold them off when national act monitor guys expressed a stronger preference for DN360 or dbx because of the way the EQ filters reacted to fader moves. They're not bad EQs, they just aren't 966's.... but I'd suggest you audition one before committing to a purchase.
Re: Foh eq questions.
Did you mean to say 960's
Trying one will be impossible without buying it first. Wish I could compare the 4 of them, the dbx, the 2 bss, and a ashly. I have heard and seen many people use the gqx 3102, just wondering if thats all I need or will a 960 make my eyes pop out.
Did you mean to say 960's
Trying one will be impossible without buying it first. Wish I could compare the 4 of them, the dbx, the 2 bss, and a ashly. I have heard and seen many people use the gqx 3102, just wondering if thats all I need or will a 960 make my eyes pop out.
Re: Foh eq questions.
:lol:
Ok well to clarify: those of us WITHOUT a Clair arsenal use GEQ's!
I guess I'm just spoiled always having a lake and a tablet with me.
Evan
:lol:
Ok well to clarify: those of us WITHOUT a Clair arsenal use GEQ's!
Re: Foh eq questions.
Didn't get to use the Ashly last night. The band brought their own console and racks with interestingly enough the DBX units. They worked very well. Big room, pipe and drape behind the stage, active mains and monitors so no real problems. 2 small cuts at 125 and 250hz and about 3db at 3.15k on the mains and only 1 cut on one of the wedges. Very clean and transparent. Not the same sound as the KT but worked very well and no complaints. This is my very subjective opinion FWIW: With the DBX it is like you are moving frequencies and with the Klark it is like you are moving chunks of the music. Both do the job. Maybe someone will show up with the BSS 960 or I will rent a unit one of these days and I will get to hear why you guys that use them like them so much.
Didn't get to use the Ashly last night. The band brought their own console and racks with interestingly enough the DBX units. They worked very well. Big room, pipe and drape behind the stage, active mains and monitors so no real problems. 2 small cuts at 125 and 250hz and about 3db at 3.15k on the mains and only 1 cut on one of the wedges. Very clean and transparent. Not the same sound as the KT but worked very well and no complaints. This is my very subjective opinion FWIW: With the DBX it is like you are moving frequencies and with the Klark it is like you are moving chunks of the music. Both do the job. Maybe someone will show up with the BSS 960 or I will rent a unit one of these days and I will get to hear why you guys that use them like them so much.
Re: Foh eq questions.
Alan, I don't think the Ashly is going to be a huge sound difference over the DBX. I remembered liking it a little better but it has been a couple of years. The DBX units I used last night were really clean. Maybe Kemper will chime in. I remember seeing A Klark DN360, An Ashly 3102, and a big DBX unit in one of his racks and his KF650z rig is high resolution enough to be able to hear the subtleties of each. Maybe he has used the BSS as well. I really like the Klark DN 360 and 370 series but it seems all of the guys that have used the KT and the upper line BSS prefer the BSS. As you get to the top of the food chain you start paying a lot more for small improvements so make sure you put your money where it will do the most good for you unless you just have plenty to spend. Anyone else?
Alan, I don't think the Ashly is going to be a huge sound difference over the DBX. I remembered liking it a little better but it has been a couple of years. The DBX units I used last night were really clean. Maybe Kemper will chime in. I remember seeing A Klark DN360, An Ashly 3102, and a big DBX unit in one of his racks and his KF650z rig is high resolution enough to be able to hear the subtleties of each. Maybe he has used the BSS as well. I really like the Klark DN 360 and 370 series but it seems all of the guys that have used the KT and the upper line BSS prefer the BSS. As you get to the top of the food chain you start paying a lot more for small improvements so make sure you put your money where it will do the most good for you unless you just have plenty to spend. Anyone else?
Re: Foh eq questions.
I've not had them on FOH as I used a well tuned DSP. I will say that on monitors (Microwedges) the Klark is absolutely more "musical" to my ears, but the Ashly is easier to use because of the sweepable high pass filters. I don't know the scope of Harry's problem but they've (Ashly's) been requested as a minimum by more than one National that I've provided for, and most all touring regionals BE's are really happy to see anything above Behringer, Art, or DOD. As for a noticeable difference to the muso's I usually provide for, there is none. No one has come to FOH or monitor beach and demanded to be switch to the Klark, or other eq's I own
I've not had them on FOH as I used a well tuned DSP. I will say that on monitors (Microwedges) the Klark is absolutely more "musical" to my ears, but the Ashly is easier to use because of the sweepable high pass filters. I don't know the scope of Harry's problem but they've (Ashly's) been requested as a minimum by more than one National that I've provided for, and most all touring regionals BE's are really happy to see anything above Behringer, Art, or DOD. As for a noticeable difference to the muso's I usually provide for, there is none. No one has come to FOH or monitor beach and demanded to be switch to the Klark, or other eq's I own
Re: Foh eq questions.
I know the BSS and Ashly kit use "constant Q" filters, probably worth a look at the filter topology as they will sound different in the end. I remember a debate on the PM5D where guys preferred the second set of EQ's as they sounded more "musical" to them, the difference being "constant Q" versus "variable Q".
I know the BSS and Ashly kit use "constant Q" filters, probably worth a look at the filter topology as they will sound different in the end. I remember a debate on the PM5D where guys preferred the second set of EQ's as they sounded more "musical" to them, the difference being "constant Q" versus "variable Q".
Re: Foh eq questions.
I'm talking about the old GREY GQX 1/3rd octave. I think it was GQX3102. Always used the deepest cut setting for ringing things out. I used them in the early 90s loved the look and feel and didn't really have a lot of experience with other EQs to realize how bad they really were. Around 2004 I took a house gig locally part time and they had racks and racks of them (multiple rooms) also they end up on shows now and then when the gear is coming from a less than steller national AV provider. In each and every case I have used them on monitors or for ringing out LAVS and PODIUM mics, I have had this issue.
Kemper, I recall the Ashly was about half the price or less than the KT back in the mid 90s. There ought to be a difference at that price. DOD, ART, etc aren't even in the running. It's silly to even mention them. Please.
At this point I'd rather have a digital console with everything except the system DSP inside. I use GEQ because the filters are wide enough to continue working after the atmospheric conditions change, but narrow enough not to be more destructive than necessary. If I need to fix something quick and dirty I don't want to be hunting for it. I want to grab it and yank it NOW.
I can't even imagine buying an analog outboard EQ at this point. If I were going to buy a rack of analog EQs, I'd buy them inside an LS9 and set it next to my console and operate the EQs with stage mix on the iPad! LOL.
I'm talking about the old GREY GQX 1/3rd octave. I think it was GQX3102. Always used the deepest cut setting for ringing things out. I used them in the early 90s loved the look and feel and didn't really have a lot of experience with other EQs to realize how bad they really were. Around 2004 I took a house gig locally part time and they had racks and racks of them (multiple rooms) also they end up on shows now and then when the gear is coming from a less than steller national AV provider. In each and every case I have used them on monitors or for ringing out LAVS and PODIUM mics, I have had this issue.
Kemper, I recall the Ashly was about half the price or less than the KT back in the mid 90s. There ought to be a difference at that price. DOD, ART, etc aren't even in the running. It's silly to even mention them. Please.
At this point I'd rather have a digital console with everything except the system DSP inside. I use GEQ because the filters are wide enough to continue working after the atmospheric conditions change, but narrow enough not to be more destructive than necessary. If I need to fix something quick and dirty I don't want to be hunting for it. I want to grab it and yank it NOW.
I can't even imagine buying an analog outboard EQ at this point. If I were going to buy a rack of analog EQs, I'd buy them inside an LS9 and set it next to my console and operate the EQs with stage mix on the iPad! LOL.
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Re: Foh eq questions.
Yes it would. You hear a difference eapecially since a better EQ takes the filters out of the chain when in the center position. That being said I can even hear a difference when I hit bypass on my Klark. The order of preference would be:
Lake
Klark
BSS
Id buy something used for $300-$400 that you'll keep for a long long time at least till you get a lake. That really are awesome.
Yes it would. You hear a difference eapecially since a better EQ takes the filters out of the chain when in the center position. That being said I can even hear a difference when I hit bypass on my Klark. The order of preference would be:
Lake
Klark
BSS
Id buy something used for $300-$400 that you'll keep for a long long time at least till you get a lake. That really are awesome.