Musicals...

Ben Lagman

Ben Lagman

Freshman
Jan 11, 2011
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Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, United States
Hi Guys,

I recently finished doing all aspects of sound for my school's musical, and was curious as of to how mic's are regularly placed for these types of events. When I was running sound, we were using wireless bodypacks with some sort of bud-connector (I suppose they're usually used for Lavs?), without a pop filter, directly taped on the face in certain areas. In addition (I wasn't in control of mic placement), they were taped on the side of the cheekbone, and one person even had the mic on her forehead because the people mic-ing them said they 'resonate better that way'... Now I just have a couple questions:

1. Is the fact that the microphone being placed on different areas of the face because "everybody resonates differently" true? IMO, I doubted that somebody would sound better with the bud on their forehead, rather than on the side of their face....
2. In the real world, what kind of mics are used, and where are they placed?
3. Are there any special things to know next time I do sound for a musical?...

Here's an example of how some were mic'ed up: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...705157266_1414291387_3607595_1893365625_n.jpg
 
Re: Musicals...

Ben Lagman said:
1. Is the fact that the microphone being placed on different areas of the face because "everybody resonates differently" true? IMO, I doubted that somebody would sound better with the bud on their forehead, rather than on the side of their face....
2. In the real world, what kind of mics are used, and where are they placed?
Click to expand...

Hi Ben,

From my experience the placement in the picture you posted is pretty standard in theater of many levels. When you do get into the higher levels regional touring/Broadway etc... they usually hide the mic up there better around the hairline. But running through the hair, through wigs etc is common. On the cheek bone is one standard way for basic community theater. Keeping it on the bone I've found to work much better than taking it done lower on the cheek.

There are others around that have much more theater experience than I do so could probably give you an even more complete answer.


Take Care,
Phil

PS - And no lavs on clothing, etc in theater! About the closest I've gotten is taping the mic to the side of the actors glasses.
 
Re: Musicals...

Ben Lagman said:
Hi Guys,

I recently finished doing all aspects of sound for my school's musical, and was curious as of to how mic's are regularly placed for these types of events. When I was running sound, we were using wireless bodypacks with some sort of bud-connector (I suppose they're usually used for Lavs?), without a pop filter, directly taped on the face in certain areas. In addition (I wasn't in control of mic placement), they were taped on the side of the cheekbone, and one person even had the mic on her forehead because the people mic-ing them said they 'resonate better that way'... Now I just have a couple questions:

1. Is the fact that the microphone being placed on different areas of the face because "everybody resonates differently" true? IMO, I doubted that somebody would sound better with the bud on their forehead, rather than on the side of their face....
2. In the real world, what kind of mics are used, and where are they placed?
3. Are there any special things to know next time I do sound for a musical?...

Here's an example of how some were mic'ed up: http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...705157266_1414291387_3607595_1893365625_n.jpg
Click to expand...

Kai Harada has a great Broadway sound site, as do a few other folks. There is also a Theater Sound list on Google Groups, originally an email list started by Jim Bay. There are archived posts and a links section available. You'll recognize the names of some participants (Henry Cohen, Mac Kerr, Page Daniel, etc)...

The forehead, cheekbone and over-ear placements are all valid and used every day in commercial theatrical productions. In addition, mics are often attached to or hidden in wigs, hats, eye glasses and costume pieces.

For some good (and not so good) mic placements, watch some of the clips from the PBS video of the 2006 revival of Company! You'll see (or not, in a few cases) all of the various placements.
 
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Re: Musicals...

Tim McCulloch said:
For some good (and not so good) mic placements, watch some of the clips from the PBS video of the 2006 revival of Company! You'll see (or not, in a few cases) all of the various placements.
Click to expand...
The OP can also check out the JWSound forums. Here is a compilation of various posts I found helpful regarding mic placement. There are some photos, too, but the comments are helpful in providing an image of how the mic was rigged.
 
Re: Musicals...

Tim McCulloch said:
Kai Harada has a great Broadway sound site, as do a few other folks. There is also a Theater Sound list on Google Groups, originally an email list started by Jim van Bergen..
Click to expand...

FWIW the Theater Sound mail list was started by Jim Bay, not Jim van Bergen, although JvB is an active participant.

Mac
 
Re: Musicals...

Thanks for the replies everybody. Lot's of great info too. Is it common practice however, to use an actual lav bud instead of an earworn mic? I found that using the lav buds were extremely susceptible to feeding back, especially with the placement on their face. I ended up ringing out a handful of frequencies (more than I'd like to) just to have an 'okay' resistance to the feedback. Granted it didn't sound as great and part of the problem was the house speakers, but it was either that or have a ringing problem...
 
Re: Musicals...

Ben Lagman said:
Thanks for the replies everybody. Lot's of great info too. Is it common practice however, to use an actual lav bud instead of an earworn mic? I found that using the lav buds were extremely susceptible to feeding back, especially with the placement on their face. I ended up ringing out a handful of frequencies (more than I'd like to) just to have an 'okay' resistance to the feedback. Granted it didn't sound as great and part of the problem was the house speakers, but it was either that or have a ringing problem...
Click to expand...

The way the mic mounts has little relevance. It's the directionality and design of the actual microphone that matters.

Both earworn and lav mics can be omni, cardioid, etc...
 
Re: Musicals...

Ben Lagman said:
Is it common practice however, to use an actual lav bud instead of an earworn mic? I found that using the lav buds were extremely susceptible to feeding back, especially with the placement on their face.
Click to expand...
I often see lavs taped near the forehead or temple or on glasses. The two biggest parts are getting the actor to project and finding that sweet spot for your transmitter's gain setting so that you're getting full AF modulation in the frequency bandwidth you're utilizing while not clipping out the bodypack's input/output stage(s).

I always prefer headset mics that get the element as close to the source as possible and remain equidistant no matter how the actor moves. This puts the onus of performance on the actor (where it belongs) but may be difficult to put into practice with amateur/unseasoned actors.
 
Re: Musicals...

Ben Lagman said:
Thanks for the replies everybody. Lot's of great info too. Is it common practice however, to use an actual lav bud instead of an earworn mic? I found that using the lav buds were extremely susceptible to feeding back, especially with the placement on their face. I ended up ringing out a handful of frequencies (more than I'd like to) just to have an 'okay' resistance to the feedback. Granted it didn't sound as great and part of the problem was the house speakers, but it was either that or have a ringing problem...
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of live theatre. If you thought RnR was a game of compromises, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

My guess is that your actors assumed 'oh we're wearing mics, we can just sing quietly and everything will be fine.' WRONG. Make sure your director rides them about Projection, Volume, and Diction. Without those 3 very important details being handled by the actors, you can't do anything. GIGO.
 
Re: Musicals...

As others have said, Its not so much about the placement with Lavs but the style (Cardiod, omni, etc.) This season alone, with the broadway tours coming through 99% of the mics were run through the hair and placed at the hair line. The 1% was hidden inside of a costume at the neck line. In theater its all about speaker placement, and how the space resonates. Luckily (or unluckly) our space was designed as a classical concert hall (very nice reverb) as well as easy projection. We have some nasty frequencies at about the 4k and 15k range but other than that its a decent space. Most of the facial placement of mics in the theater world is leaning more on cosmetics rather than functionality, with functionality being a second contender only to cosmetics (and don't even think about comfort-ability, some actors had to have the mic + belt pack inside their hair net due to costume changes)
 
Re: Musicals...

Theater is something I have delved into on occasion (read as dragged kicking and screaming!!).

When we have done them we usually stick the mic to the side of the face or over the top in the hair if the actor has costume changes. (mainly for convenience of getting changed and not ripping the mics off the face as they do). Most of the lavs I'm dealing with are omni directional..... so when 2 people come together on stage to get some quality in the audio I found myself dropping one of them to get rid of the comb filtering, they pick up everything.

Coming from a rock and roll background I went to a proper theater show (big stage show) and was actually shocked at how quiet it was. I had been mixing the shows too loud. chatted with the FOH guy and stole some ideas for my next theater gig.

He eq'ed the rig with the main graphic with music..... so all the music sounded good. then he had a group set up with a graphic on it purely to deal with the ringing out of the Lav mics. he set all the mics up on the front edge of the stage on chairs..... all turned on and started pulling frequencies. channel strips were high passed quite high.

When I did the SIM3 course with Meyer..... Magu told us about a trick where you can eq each mic flat(er)...... use SIM, Smaart, Satlive etc and a measurement mic as the Reference and the lav as the measured..... stand in front of the measurment mic and make noises SSSSSH and ahhhh etc...... to get a frequency response curve for the mic.... lets you see what needs cutting etc. This lets you get any mic tonality out on the channel (for each mic) before doing the ringing out with a graphic. It does work and I found myself pulling less on the graphic.


Kim x
 
Re: Musicals...

Kim Watson said:
Coming from a rock and roll background I went to a proper theater show (big stage show) and was actually shocked at how quiet it was. I had been mixing the shows too loud.
Click to expand...
I have noticed that the approach to SPL is much different than RnR gigs. I agree with it, though...make the audience listen, but not strain to hear. Some judicious compression can help keep the dynamic range tolerable. The use of an automixer on mics that may receive the same sources could be helpful in keeping phasing to a minimum while maintaining the apparent gain you already have with both mics open.

He eq'ed the rig with the main graphic with music..... so all the music sounded good. then he had a group set up with a graphic on it purely to deal with the ringing out of the Lav mics. he set all the mics up on the front edge of the stage on chairs..... all turned on and started pulling frequencies. channel strips were high passed quite high.
Click to expand...
When I have a bunch of the same lavs in a similar spatial environment but do not have access to more EQ, I absolutely use the bus method. I very often get stuck with a couple of GEQs and one swept mid channel EQ all the time...frustrating, but do-able.

I'd love a follow-up after your next theater gig, Kim. Let us know how things go and what tricks you used.
 
Re: Musicals...

When "ringing" the head-worn mics, I use wig stands on chairs or mic stands and place them downstage where I expect the characters to be; down center for romantic leads, stuff like that. Then I excite the space with an old fashioned mechanical metronome sitting on the stage. Lots of frequency content in the Tic Toc... Makes ringing go faster.
 
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