e-Drum / sub problems

J

John Dunne

Freshman
May 1, 2012
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Looking for some help here. 4 piece band playing 150-200 size clubs 80's dance/pop. Drummer has recently switched to e-Drums "for those authentic 80's sounds" and causing havoc with current PA: EV SbA 760 (2) EV SxA250 (4) dual PA set up with synths and drums in one half and subs.

The bass drum is causing some ugly noises out of the subs with the low end when I try to get a decent volume which is hard to describe but almost like a cone rattle - sharp double crack type noise before any ample clipping lights. EV tech repair guy looked at the speakers and found no fault - driving them to clipping in the cab, no cab rattle etc with pre-recorded music and there had been no issues with an acoustic kick drum mic'd. While I bought the PA piece by piece used everything seems to be in spec. We just can't get the low end thump he's looking for with just two of these powered 15's. No surprise there really.

I'm having him drop off his snare and bass drum to play so I can play around with EQ and compression out of the StudioLive 16.0.2 I'm using but not expecting miracles. I'm guessing it a not enough rig thing.

What I need to know is - get two more 760s or swap out for powered 18's ? If so which ones are best fit given the powered tops I'm using and cost is a consideration. I've read everything I can find on subs here and PSW so familiar with the usual suspects but hard to come by to try out here. Maybe scrap the whole rig and start over with fewer boxes - would be nice....

thanks for your thoughts.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

John Dunne said:
Looking for some help here. 4 piece band playing 150-200 size clubs 80's dance/pop. Drummer has recently switched to e-Drums "for those authentic 80's sounds" and causing havoc with current PA: EV SbA 760 (2) EV SxA250 (4) dual PA set up with synths and drums in one half and subs.

The bass drum is causing some ugly noises out of the subs with the low end when I try to get a decent volume which is hard to describe but almost like a cone rattle - sharp double crack type noise before any ample clipping lights. EV tech repair guy looked at the speakers and found no fault - driving them to clipping in the cab, no cab rattle etc with pre-recorded music and there had been no issues with an acoustic kick drum mic'd. While I bought the PA piece by piece used everything seems to be in spec. We just can't get the low end thump he's looking for with just two of these powered 15's. No surprise there really.

I'm having him drop off his snare and bass drum to play so I can play around with EQ and compression out of the StudioLive 16.0.2 I'm using but not expecting miracles. I'm guessing it a not enough rig thing.

What I need to know is - get two more 760s or swap out for powered 18's ? If so which ones are best fit given the powered tops I'm using and cost is a consideration. I've read everything I can find on subs here and PSW so familiar with the usual suspects but hard to come by to try out here. Maybe scrap the whole rig and start over with fewer boxes - would be nice....

thanks for your thoughts.
Click to expand...
You need a high-pass filter on your subs - they're bottoming out. The synth sounds are dropping below what your subs can safely reproduce, and you apparently have insufficient protection against ultra-low frequency content.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

TJ Cornish said:
You need a high-pass filter on your subs - they're bottoming out. The synth sounds are dropping below what your subs can safely reproduce, and you apparently have insufficient protection against ultra-low frequency content.
Click to expand...

They're active subs, so they already have this.

In all reality, the OP doesn't have anywhere close to enough rig for the gig. He needs at least a couple double 18s properly powered and processed.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

Silas Pradetto said:
They're active subs, so they already have this.

In all reality, the OP doesn't have anywhere close to enough rig for the gig. He needs at least a couple double 18s properly powered and processed.
Click to expand...

Active or not, the protection clearly isn't adequate if the subs are bottoming out.

I agree that more rig is required for the gig.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

TJ Cornish said:
Active or not, the protection clearly isn't adequate if the subs are bottoming out.

I agree that more rig is required for the gig.
Click to expand...

Limiters are only going to help to some extent. In the case of the OP, those subs were never intended to do anything like he's trying to do. I'm sure the boxes are just completely giving up; I'm also very surprised the drivers have survived this long.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

I've used those subs on some Corporate work for general full-range playback. If you're going to use 2 x Sxa 250's/side for tops, you're going to want a minimum of 4/760's /side under them......
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

Thanks all and my thoughts exactly Dick and as a discontinued product I think it may be time to move on while I think the low end of the e-drums calls for 18's to get the dance music thump he's looking for. I've limited and eq'd as best I can at this point.

So second part of the question: a good match powered 18": LS801P seems logical and there are certainly others but what else can be recommended that the forum has experience with ?
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

John Dunne said:
Thanks all and my thoughts exactly Dick and as a discontinued product I think it may be time to move on while I think the low end of the e-drums calls for 18's to get the dance music thump he's looking for. I've limited and eq'd as best I can at this point.

So second part of the question: a good match powered 18": LS801P seems logical and there are certainly others but what else can be recommended that the forum has experience with ?
Click to expand...

Great sub. You will need 4 of them.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

If you're looking for powered 18's then it will be hard to beat the LS801P. I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to bet that one LS801P will equal 2 SBa760 subs as far as output. I use 2 at the moment and they are plenty for rooms with 150 peeps in them.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

John Dunne said:
What I need to know is - get two more 760s or swap out for powered 18's ? If so which ones are best fit given the powered tops I'm using and cost is a consideration. I've read everything I can find on subs here and PSW so familiar with the usual suspects but hard to come by to try out here. Maybe scrap the whole rig and start over with fewer boxes - would be nice....
Click to expand...

I'm not a first hand user of this sub, but here is my advice...

1) ditch the extra set of tops - you are overpowering your subs. Or at least, whatever you have them set to, drop all of their levels about 3-5dB.

2) compress your out of control channels, mild ratio 1.6:1 or 2:1 with a low threshold

3) play with the HPF on the kick channel - but also don't count out some of the upper bass or lower mids that could be causing you issues

4) ensure the ugly noises aren't coming earlier in the signal chain (make this number 1 I'm not redoing my list)


That said, if you do get new subs and they are single driver cabs - get four.
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

Now that the acoustic drums are no longer making approx 100db on their own, your PA is having to reproduce what the PA used to do, AND what the drums put out.
And the e-sounds contain stuff your subs don't want to see. I have no clue if the filters are adequate to remove the frequencies below where the subs are happy.
Like everyone has said, you need more subs. A pair of good double 18's or something comparable. Yorky LS801's might get you there. They're darn loud for what they are
 
Re: e-Drum / sub problems

Steve Hurt said:
Now that the acoustic drums are no longer making approx 100db on their own, your PA is having to reproduce what the PA used to do, AND what the drums put out.
And the e-sounds contain stuff your subs don't want to see. I have no clue if the filters are adequate to remove the frequencies below where the subs are happy.
Like everyone has said, you need more subs. A pair of good double 18's or something comparable. Yorky LS801's might get you there. They're darn loud for what they are
Click to expand...

+1!
You definitely need more rig but 1 thing you may look at to help save your current rig is the sample your drummer is using for the kick. Maybe there is a subharmonic synth or some other extra low content that can be removed at the source?

I dont know what kind of HPF there is on your powered subs but I can tell you that the HPF on the StudioLive is only 6dB per octave. Unless you set it way up there it wont really be doing much to roll off anything real low...
 
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