Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like this?

Marsellus Fariss

Marsellus Fariss

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Oct 25, 2011
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So I'm building a monitor world in my medium sized venue using an analogue desk. We never get bands bringing monitor engy's. It's gonna really be all us. So I'm thinking about so many people flying digital desks having completely abandon outboard graphics entirely in favor of PEQ's they control with the desk or with a mouse...I'm thinking I may do the same and have PEQ in our Soundwebs displayed on a big 23" monitor and controlled via mouse or trackball. One for each mix. 12 bands per eq. It looks like this:

Photo Jun 12, 7 37 53 PM.jpg

I can program sound designer to display these full screen in any GUI format. Could be one giant PEQ per screen and tab between screens or 2 or 4 PEQ's per page or whatever. It can also do different combinations of PEQ and or 31 band graphics. The Q's can be programmed to be anything to start with and can be widened and narrowed by holding down a key or mouse button and moving the mouse or trackball. Pretty much like you would use them on an M7 or Profile.

Is this a good idea?

Here's another pic of a full screen PEQ. Actually the one I build for FOH so the resolution is a little different:

Photo Jun 12, 8 42 28 PM.jpg
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Sorry, but I want knobs or touchscreen interface. Mousing around sucks when time is of the essence.

Your idea is fine for FOH, but at monitors I need to fix things quickly.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Milt Hathaway said:
Sorry, but I want knobs or touchscreen interface. Mousing around sucks when time is of the essence.

Your idea is fine for FOH, but at monitors I need to fix things quickly.
Click to expand...

+1

I'm all in favor of PEQ if it's easy to get to, but for monitors, sometimes a 31 band is the way to go.



Evan
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Mousing around sucks for monitors.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

you could possibly get away with a motion computing tablet controlling it, but it would be difficult to use without a WACOM or touch interface. Also knobs in some type of midi controller might work.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

I wouldn't mind that setup at all. As long as I'm able to grab the EQ filters from the EQ display itself (as in not have to use the little number boxes), and adjust Q with the vertical scrolling mouse wheel (a feature some DAW EQ plugins offer)...with 12 filters I'm a happy camper. I'd prefer not to have to hold down a modifier key to adjust Q, but not the end of the world.

I honestly don't mind mousing, but if it was a UI that forced me to use those little value boxes that'd get annoying pretty quick.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Here is my answer for what it is worth. You have an analog desk. Real analog 31 band graphic EQ's are the fastest to operate in a pinch hands down. I don't think anyone on this forum would disagree. With that being said I have been using very flat bi-amped monitors with digital processing and excellent mics with hi gain before feedback for the last several years and I don't think I have touched an EQ on the monitor wedges more than 2 or 3 times in the last several hundred shows after the set up and ring out. I still have analog 31 bands on all of my monitor rigs but for the most part they are usually bypassed or the faders are all in the center detent position.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

When it comes to monitors give me a nice rack full for GEQ's with 45mm faders. Don't get me wrong - as an install systems designer I love what you can do with a Soundweb and London Architect. However, as someone with many hours behind a monitor console as well I'll always take the GEQ's in this application due to the nature of muso's and the stupid loudness at which some want their wedges.

Even in a great venue with great equipment I see mixing monitors as combat audio when working with a band that apparently doesn't care about hearing loss, and there are a great many like that as I'm sure we can all attest. You're often on the ragged edge of feedback and the second there's even the slightest ring I want to hack away before it goes off on me. The great thing about monitor EQ is that even if it sounds like total shit to you and every other human on earth as long as the muso is happy it doesn't matter because that is the only person hearing it so I couldn't give two shits as far as how it sounds.

So another vote for the GEQ's.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Thanks for the input. I'm gonna keep both around and use whatever. The Soundwebs are such great multitools to have around I've gotten quite fond of them.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

The digital PEQ's are fantastic when you have plenty of time to set up and analyze the system. They do not have all the artifacts the analog counterparts have such as phase distortion and are for the most part smoother and cleaner. If you already have them I would use them at least for the set up and ring out part even if you have analog 31 bands for the quick fix during the show. The less you hack up the the sound with an analog EQ the better. You can get away with a much less expensive analog GEQ on monitors (we are in JV) if you only have to maybe cut a band or 2 during the show in an emergency rather than trying to hack up the response during set up. Because you are in a venue you can at least be consistant with lack of feedback from band to band with your system if you are using your own mics as you will soon know the problem frequencies of the wedges and space. If a vocalist or musician brings there own mic alot of the time you can fix any problem frequencies at the channel strip. You might get away without the 31 bands if you have really good gear and properly set it up and ring it out. If you were going to have guest monitor engineers or were mobile working mainly inside I would definately, positively, without a doubt have 31 bands tied in (I still do even though I am rarely not outside) but you are telling us that it will be your guys only. Just my .02 worth.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

I like my Sabine GraphiQ's for this. You can have both "grab and go" graphic filters with slider controls as well as parametrics you can set from a laptop. And you also have dynamic filters available to catch any transient trouble frequencies.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Dick Rees said:
I like my Sabine GraphiQ's for this. You can have both "grab and go" graphic filters with slider controls as well as parametrics you can set from a laptop. And you also have dynamic filters available to catch any transient trouble frequencies.
Click to expand...

There's a stereo unit for sale in the Marketplace (maybe it's on PSW?). Just in case you wanted another one. I'd snatch it up, but my Mac won't jive with Sabine's control program unless I put Windows on it...and I can't afford to do both.
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Jordan Wolf said:
There's a stereo unit for sale in the Marketplace (maybe it's on PSW?). Just in case you wanted another one. I'd snatch it up, but my Mac won't jive with Sabine's control program unless I put Windows on it...and I can't afford to do both.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw that. But he wants $300 or so for it. I've been picking them up for around $100. I have a couple with the face plate controls and a slew of the 1-space/2-channel black boxes for use with laptop only. I guess I shouldn't be bragging them up if I want to keep getting "sleeper price" deals........
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Reading through your post I'm left with a question.... Are you also using the sound web as xover for your mixes? Or as an insert on the analogue board?

If its as the xovers, I didnt think that the sound wed system would imprint the pfl'ed mix eq on to your listen wedge mix like the dbx or tc processors do (both of which have an external graphic pannel with 32 faders to grab)mI could be wrong. If it doesnt, You would be left with a pre eq mix in your listen and as a monitor engineer I would find this very fustrating because i woudn't be able to hear what the artist is actualy hearing. What would be harsh in my wedge might be dull in his due to the mix eq.

If it is as an insert i would hear it and that would be fine.... I would prefer touch screen control of it. But with an analogue board you may aswell use normal graphs and use your parametrics to make your wedges sound good out of the box without too much tweaking.

Kim
 
Re: Would you rather have graphs for mixing wedges or PEQ's on a large screen like th

Kim Watson said:
Reading through your post I'm left with a question.... Are you also using the sound web as xover for your mixes? Or as an insert on the analogue board?

If its as the xovers, I didnt think that the sound wed system would imprint the pfl'ed mix eq on to your listen wedge mix like the dbx or tc processors do (both of which have an external graphic pannel with 32 faders to grab)mI could be wrong. If it doesnt, You would be left with a pre eq mix in your listen and as a monitor engineer I would find this very fustrating because i woudn't be able to hear what the artist is actualy hearing. What would be harsh in my wedge might be dull in his due to the mix eq.

If it is as an insert i would hear it and that would be fine.... I would prefer touch screen control of it. But with an analogue board you may aswell use normal graphs and use your parametrics to make your wedges sound good out of the box without too much tweaking.

Kim
Click to expand...

I was using the soundweb on the insert points. So the listen wedges reflected the PEQ curve. I have since abandoned the idea at least as far as being a replacement for graphics and acquired some Ashly PEQ 3102's for all wedge mixes. I may still use the Soundwebs in serial. I dunno.
 
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