HK Audio proprietary new boxes

Greg Cameron

Senior
Jan 11, 2011
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This is not the HK you think it is. This company is a one man shop in the boonies run by David Robinson who claims to have worked on the Wall of Sound with The Dead. He had been poo-pooing my Rat rig at my venue as well as all things digital, even though he's never heard the rig. He's using his newly built rig for it's first gig tonight in my venue. It's interesting and old school in many ways. He's using all passive crossover designs in the tops, the subs, and the LM boxes. All custom made chokes and high precision poly caps. No external processor other then a KT graphic. He also insists the the Yamaha PM3000 he's using outfitted with new high end transformers in the input is better than anything else out there bar none. Who am I to argue? But I thought the rig was interesting even though I think the implementation has some issues.

He's going 4 tops wide with 90 degree radial horns and tweeter lenses, no splay. All boxes are bandpass designs. The tops have 2 10s, old JBL 2" compression drivers on a radial horn, and a 1" JBL on a redesigned lens. The lens was custom designed for David by an former old school JBL employee who also designed the crossovers. The 10s are custom designed and manufactured by some German outfit. Apparently that cost quite a bit of money. Below the tops are 4 single 15" boxes and then two single 18" bandpass subs. The subs have large chokes in them for the low pass. He's using AB amps to power it all.

I kept my mouth shut, but 2 big problems with this setup as show is that the 1) the horns are all 90" with the boxes all flat faced (no splay)and 2), the 2" horns are at eye level and the tweeter lenses are at chin level. The people in front are going to be hurting and the folks behind them aren't going to being hearing the highs very well. I expect there to be lots of combing as well.

Anyhow, I'm going to go listen to it in a little bit. I'll let ya'll know how it sounds. Sorry for the fuzzy iPhone pics, but low light and iPhone cameras present a challenge.
 

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Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

The other problem with the setup is sight lines. Kinda hard to see the band. This is a 12 piece band playing tonight...
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

The other problem with the setup is sight lines. Kinda hard to see the band. This is a 12 piece band playing tonight...

Yep, from your fourth picture there's about a "1/3" the width of the stage" window on the band. All of the band's friend/fans who get close enough to see the entire ensemble are likely to have their heads ripped off by those old JBL 2 inch drivers.
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

This is not the HK you think it is. This company is a one man shop in the boonies run by David Robinson who claims to have worked on the Wall of Sound with The Dead. He had been poo-pooing my Rat rig at my venue as well as all things digital, even though he's never heard the rig. He's using his newly built rig for it's first gig tonight in my venue. .
Greg,

If this clown "worked on the Wall of Sound with The Dead" and had a clue he would have realized the two main good features of that system were:
1) They put it way up on scaffold so it could reach the back of the room without tearing heads off those near the "wall".
2) The vocal array was curved, approximating a cylindrical wavefront, reducing comb filtering.

Did he bring any good herb?

Art
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

No herb Art. My report after hearing the system is 1) the Rat rig stomps all over it across the board both in output and fidelity though it's only 8 boxes. There was no bottom end or low mid balls. 2) the combing was awful, 3) vertical coverage from the radial horns was poor, 4) the mix was not good. Also, He had a compressor strapped across the main bus which was crunching pretty hard and no individual or group compression going on. There was a KT quad comp in the rack but it wasn't turned on. There was no reverb or fx in the rack at all. There was no EQ for the monitors to mitigate feedback. He had someone come in before the show to "analyze the rig with an RTA and a really expensive mic." The RTA was a portable unit with no dual input FFT style setup.

I was wrong about the horns. They're 1" JBL 2345 horns using JBL 2420 drivers. The lenses have JBL 075s behind them.
 
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Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

No herb Art. My report after hearing the system is 1) the Rat rig stomps all over it across the board both in output and fidelity though it's only 8 boxes. There was no bottom end or low mid balls. 2) the combing was awful, 3) vertical coverage from the radial horns was poor, 4) the mix was not good. Also, He had a compressor strapped across the main bus which was crunching pretty hard and no individual or group compression going on. There was a KT quad comp in the rack but it wasn't turned on. There was no reverb or fx in the rack at all. There was no EQ for the monitors to mitigate feedback. He had someone come in before the show to "analyze the rig with an RTA and a really expensive mic." The RTA was a portable unit with no dual input FFT style setup.

I was wrong about the horns. They're 1" JBL 2345 horns using JBL 2420 drivers. The lenses have JBL 075s behind them.

so. the 'modified 3K' through a pile of semi-random components did not sound good.

this. is. shocking.

physics 1. homebrew 0.
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

Though I felt vindicated after having my rig bad-mouthed by this person all over town (without actually hearing it), I was disappointed that all the time & money spent building that setup along with the number of boxes wasn't more impressive. I really was expecting more. He seemed to think it sounded wonderful. I suspect he hasn't been to a show with a modern PA in 30 years. He was telling me how much better his boxes sound when running them with McIntosh amps instead of the ABs. That might be a clue.
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

He basically promoted the show and provided PA. He's trying to showcase his new system. The show lost quite a bit of money as it was also poorly promoted and receipts didn't even cover the band's fee.
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

I was wrong about the horns. They're 1" JBL 2345 horns using JBL 2420 drivers. The lenses have JBL 075s behind them.
I thought they looked like 2345s, I had some in my 1979 PA, just 33 years ago.

The Macintosh 2300s used in the Dead's "Wall of Sound" used autoformers on the outputs, they had a kind of soft clip even when pushed hard, they sounded better when over driven than most solid state amps of the era.
The autoformers had several taps, the amp could deliver full power (2 x 300 watts) in to various impedances. 4, 8 and 16 IIRC.

The 2300s probably do sound better with that goofy rig then AB amps.
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

Just because something is "custom designed" does not mean anything. Over my years I have "custom designed" all sorts of things. Does that mean they are better? NO. All it really means is it was DIY.

Just bcause somebody has worked on a "project" or for a particualr company-does not mean they know anything either. There is a local I guy I know who say he used to work for Showco. Fine. But when your job is to load the trucks and sweep the floor-it does not mean you know what you are doing when it comes to system operation or design.

The simple fact of the major overlap of the horn patterns is a MAJOR giveaway that he doesn't have a clue. Along with the horns not being high enough. That is system design 101.

When you miss the really big stuff-do you really think that "little things" are going to make up for it?
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

When you miss the really big stuff-do you really think that "little things" are going to make up for it?

My sentiments exactly Ivan. Much cluelessness going on here. The fact that my rig was being bashed well before this show, without being heard AFAIK, was a bit of a clue...
 
Re: HK Audio proprietary new boxes

My sentiments exactly Ivan. Much cluelessness going on here. The fact that my rig was being bashed well before this show, without being heard AFAIK, was a bit of a clue...

One last clue to his cluelessness, good sounding boxes are getting smaller and prettier , not bigger and uglier..And those boxes are dog bit ugly
 
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