RF Analyzers

S

Steve Ferreira

Sophomore
Jan 12, 2011
189
0
16
Toronto, Canada
At work we have a Winradio setup. It works well and intergrates with WWB pretty good. We have a big event coming into town and I have been asked to do the rf assigments for all of our wireless needs. We carry a big inventory of Shure ULX (M1,J1), UHF-R's (J5 I think) as well as Senn G300 G3's. I can easily see with wireless mic count getting up to 100 if not more for this event. I also have to take into account that there will be tons of wi-fi, media etc....

Is there a rf analyzer that is better then the winradio? How does the invisble waves stack up to the winradio? Would you use a handheld analyzer on show day to walk the floor with?
I think I might be in over my head, but I don't want to turn down the job without knowing if I can actually do it or not.

Thanks
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Pete's paper on the matter is a terrific tutorial and highly recommended. That said, there are two distinct parts to any good RF coordination (well, three if you consider an advance site survey) which you somewhat combined in your post. First, there's the spectrum measurement tool, essentially the spectrum analyzer or advanced scanner products (such as the WinRadio). Next is the frequency coordination software that will produce your "rf assignments" based on your inventory and the results of the spectrum measurements. The two are not the same yet are mutually inclusive in order to provide a successful RF deployment.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Steve Ferreira said:
At work we have a Winradio setup. It works well and intergrates with WWB pretty good. We have a big event coming into town and I have been asked to do the rf assigments for all of our wireless needs. We carry a big inventory of Shure ULX (M1,J1), UHF-R's (J5 I think) as well as Senn G300 G3's. I can easily see with wireless mic count getting up to 100 if not more for this event. I also have to take into account that there will be tons of wi-fi, media etc....

Is there a rf analyzer that is better then the winradio? How does the invisble waves stack up to the winradio? Would you use a handheld analyzer on show day to walk the floor with?
I think I might be in over my head, but I don't want to turn down the job without knowing if I can actually do it or not.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

I have done these kind of events with my TTI analyzer and IAS which I would consider the bare minimum amount of gear you need to be able to deal with that many devices.
WWB will slow you down a bit with large device counts as it looks at conflicts that you can safely ignore (7ths and 9ths) which makes it harder to come up with a large number of compatible devices. I haven't used ver6 enough to see if this has been addressed.

Just my 2 cents from someone way farther down the experience ladder than either Henry or Peter.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

john sulek said:
Hi Steve,

I have done these kind of events with my TTI analyzer and IAS which I would consider the bare minimum amount of gear you need to be able to deal with that many devices.
WWB will slow you down a bit with large device counts as it looks at conflicts that you can safely ignore (7ths and 9ths) which makes it harder to come up with a large number of compatible devices. I haven't used ver6 enough to see if this has been addressed.

Just my 2 cents from someone way farther down the experience ladder than either Henry or Peter.
Click to expand...

Is WWB6 even out there anywhere? I can't find anywhere to download it.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

WWB6 beta is available and working nicely in OSX Lion for me. It does hang once in a while, but rarely. It is a huge revamp from v5 and Shure managed to make it both more powerful and easier to use and understand. That, girls and boys is a rarity.

Notes:

1. Be sure to update the firmware of your UHF-R receivers BEFORE upgrading to WW6.

2. WW5 is not Lion compatible.

3. The ULX-D requires WW6 for computer access.

4. WW6 includes other mfg's products and makes adding devices not yet listed quite a bit easier than previously.

You'll need to click on this link, register, then you'll have access to both the software and the rather busy Q&A forum:

Wireless Workbench 6 Beta
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Langston Holland said:
WWB6 beta is available and working nicely in OSX Lion for me. It does hang once in a while, but rarely. It is a huge revamp from v5 and Shure managed to make it both more powerful and easier to use and understand. That, girls and boys is a rarity.

Notes:

1. Be sure to update the firmware of your UHF-R receivers BEFORE upgrading to WW6.

2. WW5 is not Lion compatible.

3. The ULX-D requires WW6 for computer access.

4. WW6 includes other mfg's products and makes adding devices not yet listed quite a bit easier than previously.

You'll need to click on this link, register, then you'll have access to both the software and the rather busy Q&A forum:

Wireless Workbench 6 Beta
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link I have signed up and will have to download WWB6 and try it out.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Update:

Between wireless mics, walkies, wireless comm and other stuff it looks like we will be sitting around 250 rf frequencies needed. Since I was in way over my head, I told my supervisors that I didn't feel comfortable dealing with this, and that they should hire an "RF GURU". They listened to my request/concerns and have hired a very capable individual.
We will be using mostly Shure products on this event. The mics will range from Shure Axients, UHF-Rs, ULX-Ps and possibly some ULX-Ds. We might find a use for some Sennheiser G300s also. The Axients and UHF-Rs will be networked through out the buildings existing network. We are talking convention centre here with multiple rooms and floors. WWB6 will be provided and from what I have been told it's a very close to completion beta copy.
I will be shadowing and soaking up as much information as possible. I will also keep updating and posting pics once the event kicks off.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Steve Ferreira said:
Update:Between wireless mics, walkies, wireless comm and other stuff it looks like we will be sitting around 250 rf frequencies needed. Since I was in way over my head, I told my supervisors that I didn't feel comfortable dealing with this, and that they should hire an "RF GURU". They listened to my request/concerns and have hired a very capable individual.
Click to expand...

Takes guts to make a personal call like this. Good stuff.
(I've done the opposite on many occasions and got stuck!)
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Steve Ferreira said:
Update:
The mics will range from Shure Axients...WWB6 will be provided and from what I have been told it's a very close to completion beta copy.
Click to expand...
Could we possibly get a Product Review for the Axient mics and WWB6? That would be really cool. I use UHF-R daily at my job, and they're quite nice and feature-rich for what we do (corporate A/V). I've been eyeing up the Axient for a number of reasons (mostly curiosity) and would love to get an end user's perspective on them. How have they compared to your expectations? I'm especially excited about the ability to change the transmitter settings on-the-fly. RF sync is nice, but when you get a shouter, or things get rowdy, it sucks to not be able to adjust the transmitter gain to compensate and keep things from clipping.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

We use the TTI as our roving freq finder. With two techs on radio, the radio shack tech pin points what he thinks the offending freq(s) is on the IFR and radios it to the rover. For a small, inexpensive device it works surprisingly well. The bands in the arena aren't too difficult to find since they usually have RF beach at mon world. The real PITA are tracking down the ENG crews at the sporting events.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Dave Stevens said:
We use the TTI as our roving freq finder.
Click to expand...

I love the TTi unit that we have. It has come in surprisingly handy on several occasions, usually when some some two-bit anklebiter comes in with 20 years old gear that only allows you to select frequencies by groups and channels, and with no user manual available to find out what frequencies the groups and channels refer to.

[/quote]The real PITA are tracking down the ENG crews at the sporting events.[/quote]

Do you actually get to tell the news crews that they have to shut down or change their frequencies? And which part if harder, figuring our which crew is transmitting on the offending frequency? or Tracking down where exactly that crew is transmitting from in the megalopolis of a mini city that each property is?
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Justice C. Bigler said:
Do you actually get to tell the news crews that they have to shut down or change their frequencies? And which part if harder, figuring our which crew is transmitting on the offending frequency? or Tracking down where exactly that crew is transmitting from in the megalopolis of a mini city that each property is?
Click to expand...

If they are on private property we do. We haven't had an issue with ENG, everyone cooperates because they don't want their media credentials pulled. We can tell by listening and scouting the area by the media center. You can here the call signs or a known program so you know who to look for.

A couple of the concert acts have tried to give us grief but in the contract there is a non negociable clause that gives them the freqs available for their use. We had Nickleback/Bush in Sat night and had a few issues and they were absolute pros. A real pleasure to deal with. If the acts are having issues we provide an RF tech to assist. In both cases they want to stay away from our freqs just as much as we want to stay away from theirs. It's done in a non confrontational manner and for the most part everyone is pleased how it works out. When the big awards show come in the show's coordinators are usually the people we use for consultants in the theater. Makes for an easy week.
 
Re: RF Analyzers

Jordan Wolf said:
Could we possibly get a Product Review for the Axient mics and WWB6? That would be really cool. I use UHF-R daily at my job, and they're quite nice and feature-rich for what we do (corporate A/V). I've been eyeing up the Axient for a number of reasons (mostly curiosity) and would love to get an end user's perspective on them. How have they compared to your expectations? I'm especially excited about the ability to change the transmitter settings on-the-fly. RF sync is nice, but when you get a shouter, or things get rowdy, it sucks to not be able to adjust the transmitter gain to compensate and keep things from clipping.
Click to expand...

We do corporate A/V also, and since one of the many VP's of this company is speaking in what can be multiple rooms we decided not to chance it and the Axients will be the "money channel" for him. The biggest issue is gonna be with media and attendees. It's a very high profile event. They are expecting like 30,000 attendees and media from all over the world.
Should be a fun time..... :)
 
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