Monitor Directionality

J

Joseph Adam

Freshman
Sep 3, 2012
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Cambridge, UK
I was thinking a little bit today about monitors.

One of the things that I've noticed in the venue I work in (a church) is that one of the challenges is the noise coming back of stage. Every things ends up a bit 'muddy' due to whats coming back off stage. We moved to using hotspots a while back, which has helped with monitor volume, although they don't sound great, and really clutter up the stage.
Anyway, I've never seen anyone really discuss the directionality of monitor wedges. Are any of them better at keeping sound going forwards rather than backwards (assuming the back wall has some absorption of course).

In the same sort of vein - I notice that Danley have a monitor wedge on their website. Has anyone heard it? It's claims significant front to back rejections.

Just some late night wondering

Joe
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

Yes, virtually any basic wedge is going to throw serious mud in every direction. There is very little pattern control down low, say below 200Hz.

Additionally, much of the wash you get coming off the stage, especially in small venues, is upstage wall and/or ceiling reflection. Tents are the worst for this.

Adding big heavy drapes or a cyc can dramatically help reflection off that upstage wall.
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

The reason the Danley has a higher front to back ratio is the simple fact that it uses a large horn.

Small horns can provide directivity only on the higher freq.

Of course once you get below where the horn has control over the pattern-it starts to spill.

That is where highpass filters come in handy.

Just like the lower freq sound spill from the monitors-the ALSO spill from the mains onto the stage.

So if you try to have the monitors truly full range-there will be a low freq buildup on stage-which means you need to turn the monitors up LOUDER to try and come over the mud.

This of course sends more low freq from the monitors out into the crowd.

SO-by raising the high pass filter on the monitors (assuming they have pattern control-either with a large horn or a large baffle) you can reduce the mud coming off of the stage.

And the musicians will still have the "Warmth of the sound" coming from the mains. That is until you run just the monitors-then the band will complain about the sound.

HOWEVER-since you are not likely to run an event using only the monitors-then you should have the house mix up when setting monitors.

Another reason for having the mains on when setting monitors is that a lot of musicians will ask for the monitor levels to be higher than they really need them-because they are looking for the monitors to "fill up" the room. So with the FOH on-the room will already be "full of sound" so now they are just looking for enough to hear clearly.

And with less mud-that will be easier.

The "trick" is getting everything to work together properly and not "fight" each other.
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

Ivan Beaver said:
HOWEVER-since you are not likely to run an event using only the monitors-then you should have the house mix up when setting monitors.
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Not always possible if the venue is open to the public when sound checking :( . I'll disable or lower the HPF's for the monitors until I can bring the mains up fully - often not until the first set starts :roll: . My usual monitors are -3db @ 100Hz anyways...
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

So does that mean its possible that the hotspots (which are a dual 5" box), and don't seem to have any directionality below around 400Hz, aren't actually helping our cause. We can generally run them a little quieter, since they are closer to the performers, but this may be cancelled out by the lack of directionality. They only go down to 250Hz though ( I think that's where my HPF is set - I'll double check next time I'm there)

Of course the fact that the back wall is (at the moment) bare stone, with a very high ceiling probably doesn't help either.

I'll definitely make a note to bring up the mains first though.

Joe
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

Joseph Adam said:
So does that mean its possible that the hotspots (which are a dual 5" box), and don't seem to have any directionality below around 400Hz, aren't actually helping our cause. We can generally run them a little quieter, since they are closer to the performers, but this may be cancelled out by the lack of directionality. They only go down to 250Hz though ( I think that's where my HPF is set - I'll double check next time I'm there)

Of course the fact that the back wall is (at the moment) bare stone, with a very high ceiling probably doesn't help either.

I'll definitely make a note to bring up the mains first though.

Joe
Click to expand...

The fact that there simply is no LF is why you're seeing a benefit.
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

HighPass Filter is a sound engineers BEST friend.

HighPass every channel as high as you can, and try to minimize the low frequency you are sending to the monitors. When I'm doing monitors from a different console I usually HPF kick and bass pretty high, and boost the higher frequencies. Same with vocal and everything else.
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

Árni F. Sigurðsson said:
HighPass Filter is a sound engineers BEST friend.

HighPass every channel as high as you can, and try to minimize the low frequency you are sending to the monitors. When I'm doing monitors from a different console I usually HPF kick and bass pretty high, and boost the higher frequencies. Same with vocal and everything else.
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Agreed. It is amazing how much "mud" you can get rid of-both in the house and the monitor system.

As you get rid of the mud-you can keep the level a bit lower-and get more "punch" because there is not a lot of "junk" getting in the way of the instruments that need it.
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

I generally use the 100 Hz HPF's on my IPR1600 monitor amps. The little 10" sealed coaxial monitors I have were measured at -6db@100 Hz anyways. Everyone raves about their vocal clarity :) .
 
Re: Monitor Directionality

Kick maybe 40-70 (for rock) dip around 250 and boost somewhere between 2.5-5k (depending on drum and mic), rock bands need to hear the click.

Bass, maybe 60-90, again depending on music and type of bass. Boost higher frequencies.

I also tend to Highpass aux outputs, usually around 80-100 (except maybe drums)

Numbers might be off tough, I listen to it trough a wedge of the same type as the band has, not remember numbers ;)
 
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