HDMI Baluns

[Milt Hathaway]

Re: HDMI Baluns

And stripping the content protection while converting from HDMI/DVI/DisplayPort to HD-SDI would be illegal...

Too bad we have to do exactly that in order to do our jobs. I'm prepared to (both morally and inventory-wise) and I know I'm not the only one.

Luckily, I haven't run into a laptop yet that didn't still have VGA or DVI-I available (even through a DisplayPort or Thunderbolt adaptor), even if it did also include an HDMI 'convenience outlet'.

 

[Brad Weber]

Re: HDMI Baluns

I have yet to find (at ANY cost) a matrix switcher for HDMI that works as quickly and troublefree as analog (either YPbPr or RGBHV) It's always exactly because of what what Brad refers to above.

HDCP and EDID involved two-way communications, negotiations and handshakes that take time and that have to reoccur if anything changes, however some manufacturers are getting creative at ways to minimize that.

My go-to solution has been the HD-Fury for that one HDMI device that every client insists "has to work" alongside evrything else in an already happy matrix setup.

Just so others don't get the wrong idea, the HDFury devices get around the related legal issues by being intended to convert a non-HDCP compatible input on a TV, monitor, projector or similar device input into a HDCP compliant HDMI input. They are not intended to be used on source device outputs where they could be used to defeat HDCP as that would be illegal.

Meanwhile I'm waiting for the so-called "Analog Sunset" to wreak havoc on thousands of perfectly good working HD restaurant and sports-bar rigs worldwide

There was a period that many were in a panic regarding the Analog Sunset and then people started to realize that the Analog Sunset does not apply to cable/satellite/OTA tuners, it relates not only just to HD outputs but also only to Blu-Ray devices and only to AACS protected content. So other than 'movie night' type use it actually has rather limited direct implications outside consumer applications, however the byproduct is that many Blu-Ray player manufacturers are responding by reducing product costs by eliminating providing outputs other than HDMI.

 

[Craig Hauber]

Re: HDMI Baluns

So what would you recommend for a sports bar matrix with 26 TV's and 8 DirecTV boxes (average)?

The TV's range in size from 42's to 50's/60's and projectors.

We regularly get shipments now of new DirecTV boxes that don't have Composite outputs at all and there's a big go-around on the phone to get corrected shipments.

I'm just waiting for the day when they simply don't make analog-output boxes anymore.

I've just played around with some HDMI switchers (some really expensive and by good names) and the switching experience is nowhere near the ease and quickness of analog. Some TV's get stuck on a purple/pink image, some take several flashes and flickers and repeated "no signal" warnings.

The customers are used to good, simple HD switching, it's beyond my level of salesmanship to convince them of an "upgrade" that doesn't work as well and costs twice as much! -I'm sticking with audio mostly but sometimes that end of a job is put in jeopardy by the video crew not able to appease a customer so I have to step-up to the plate for damage control quite often. (as it seems the buck always stops at the sound guy

 

[Ryan Zemke]

Re: HDMI Baluns

hdmi matrix switching has come a long way even in the last year. As most of the manufacturers have realized that they simply need to put HDCP sink keys on the front end of their matrix and DA equipment as opposed to the repeater keys that they were originally trying to use. This does increase the chip licensing costs associated with the hardware but the problem with HDCP key limitations (cable boxes are especially bad about this) has essentially been resolved. Additionally manufacturers like Crestron and Extron have control based matrix and transport solutions that are more pricey but are worth the money if you have to have control of your displays.


If control is not needed then a simple HDCP compliant matrix or DA is not hard to come by. The key is to use HDCP compliant displays and ensure that your transport or balun system is also capable of passing HDCP and EDID information reliably. A common mistake that I have made is to use HDCP compliant switching systems and analog transport systems which renders the HDCP switching useless. Also, I have found that most of my installers perceived HDCP problems actually turn out to be improper EDID implementation.


As far as distance is concerned single category cable baluns that will reach 300ft but you must use the manufacturer recommended cables and connectors. Many of these cables are only category cable by spirit but have individual shields between the pairs as well as a foil shied and a drain wire. Not only are they a pain to terminate but usually require special crimpers and are generally more expensive.


Reading some of the "outside of the box" solutions above i can't help but have one of those "why didn't i think of that" moments but the old way of doing things is not dead, it just went into a coma for a while until the industry figured out how to get around the mafia driving HDMI and HDCP.

 

[Tim Duffin]

Re: HDMI Baluns

So what would you recommend for a sports bar matrix with 26 TV's and 8 DirecTV boxes (average)?

The TV's range in size from 42's to 50's/60's and projectors.

We regularly get shipments now of new DirecTV boxes that don't have Composite outputs at all and there's a big go-around on the phone to get corrected shipments.

I'm just waiting for the day when they simply don't make analog-output boxes anymore.

I've just played around with some HDMI switchers (some really expensive and by good names) and the switching experience is nowhere near the ease and quickness of analog. Some TV's get stuck on a purple/pink image, some take several flashes and flickers and repeated "no signal" warnings.

The customers are used to good, simple HD switching, it's beyond my level of salesmanship to convince them of an "upgrade" that doesn't work as well and costs twice as much! -I'm sticking with audio mostly but sometimes that end of a job is put in jeopardy by the video crew not able to appease a customer so I have to step-up to the plate for damage control quite often. (as it seems the buck always stops at the sound guy

The solution in the corporate environment is this: DigitalMedia™ - Products - Analog and Digital AV Distribution and Control [Crestron Electronics, Inc.]

There are many other products that work like it (some cheaper) but nobody except crestron has the full software package to back it up. You can get full switching for an unlimited number of hdcp compliant sources and destinations with no lag/delay whatsoever at ranges of up to 7 miles (fiber). 680' source to dest with cat5 utp. Additionally, you can cross convert 3g sdi to hdmi with no issues whatsoever with this system and make 8x8 video walls for your sportsbar with no additional hardware.

Now, the bad news: It is the most advanced system you can buy, and therefore the most expensive. Seriously, at a minimum it is twice as much as the next closest competitor. But Crestron knows that they have the market with this thing, so they are not keen on lowering the price.

That being said; when a DM system is installed, it works great and everybody likes it.