Video feed- permission/credit/fees

D

Dave Rickard

Freshman
Jan 29, 2011
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Wild West
Discussion starter-- Like all of you, I've supplied audio for videography when asked.

Recently I was asked for an audio to camera feed and I agreed as usual. What I was NOT told was that it was a 3-camera shoot intended for SALE AND PROFIT by the artist.

I see this as different than archival video intended for in-house use by the performers, i.e. rough archival footage.

If it's being professionally shot and edited:

Should we as providers ask to be in the credits in a "video for release"?
Credits for "in-house" only?

Should we be compensated extra for a "for release" video?
Same question, for "in-house"?

Am I on the wrong track here?
What are your policies on this?
etc., etc, etc...

Thanks in advance.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

That's definitely lame of them on two counts: a straight board feed is usually not ideal in terms of mix, and you weren't being compensated.

It's probably worth thinking about the issue for future work in these terms. A straight board feed can be included in your fee if it is for "archival" purposes, i.e. the band wanting to hear how they played, or the venue to keep a record of what happened. But if it is for a "release" of any sort, where the mix matters, additional technical resources probably need to be employed. For a "simple" 2-mix, you still probably want to add some ambient mics. You may want to add additional mics on stage, also - or choose different mics, etc. In other words, the client needs to tell you in advance what the purpose of the feed is, and compensate you according to the choices they make in that regard. Heck, you might be able to offer them a multi-track recording service, a "scratch" board mix for reference on video, and then provide mixing services for the final product. Again, the client needs to decide these things and pay you accordingly.
 
Agreed about a band board mix being merely adequate.

The 3 camera shoot was a magician on a wireless headset, so a decent board feed was really all he needed to make his DVD to sell. That one started my thinking on this.

Yesterday, I received notice about working with a production company who wants a board feed on an upcoming show. I thought I'd ask folks here before responding to them.

I think I need to ask good questions and get good answers.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

I'd be inclined to say (I do live recording professionally) that if it's no extra effort on your behalf you are no more entitled to a cut than the venue is (who's to say, maybe both are entitled). I'd also be inclined to try and upsell to that production company (bring some of your own gear, make a proper recording) :-D that way you can ask for a cut.

Also very interested to see what others say.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

Was it all original material or was any of it copyrighted? That could add another consideration since public performance rights don't include recording or sync to video and you could potentially become part of any related issues.

Along the line that Karl mentioned, was it a mix with which you'd want to have your name associated? That is not denigrating your mix but addressing it being a simple board feed rather than mix put together just for that intent or a multitrack edited and post-produced mix.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

When i worked as an audio tech back in high school the price for a board feed for an event not school related was an added cost. $200 got them the simple patch. Out of all the events we did the only one to do that was (and read "all events" by a graduation, a magician, and a band) the magician. I can't release his name but he had some copyrighted material in it but when you are just providing the gear and the mix that didn't fall on our heads.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

The venue has absolute right to charge for additional revenue created from the use of the facility. If any of my labor, whether intrinsic to the use of the facilty or not, is utilized to generate revenue beyond the performance in the facility at which I'm employed, I am entitled to additional compensation.

Not sure how things are in Adelaide, but try not paying in Sydney... ;)
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

Not very monetized. The Cavern Club is the exception, that guy's determined to get his share but unfortunately being the odd one out makes it an uphill climb for him or anyone else looking to charge a proper rate....having said that, who knows at the much bigger venues, they might have that sort of thing sussed.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

Jordan Lahr said:
I can't release his name but he had some copyrighted material in it but when you are just providing the gear and the mix that didn't fall on our heads.
Click to expand...
US copyright law holds responsible all parties who benefit from any copyright infringement so while very unlikely to be an issue, you do potentially have some liability. Somewhat like the fact that the venue is not the one performing, however they are typically benefiting from the performance and directly contributing to it being a public performance and thus are often held accountable for procuring the associated public performance rights and for any infringements.

If you charge for and/or are credited for providing the mix for recording then that seems to create a definitive benefit and to possibly increase your potential liability unless you have specifically addressed the related rights either by obtaining them or having another party accept that responsibility. Also consider that your mix might be considered a unique work and thus unless you are doing it as 'work for hire' or assign those rights then you may have some rights to it so it is probably in all parties' interests to clarify all of the copyrights issues.
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

The answers are, or course, it's complicated, it's hard, and depends. Almost entirely on contractual arrangements between the parties. The copyright legislation provides protections against copyright infringement, but don't decide who gets paid what out of the spoils.

So for a magician doing a show at a venue that is recorded professionally for sale, assuming that the material is entirely created by the magician himself, then he holds the copyright, and he is entitled to all the royalties of the distributed DVDs. However, his contract with the promoter may alter or waive that right. The venue may have wording in its contract with the promoter that enables them to be paid something, maybe a flat fee, maybe points from the royalty. Or there may not be a promoter. As Tim has noted, the venue may have an arrangement with the workforce so the benefits trickle down.

What the OP as the sound man gets paid (assuming there isn't a Union arrangement in place) for providing a video feed depends on what is in his/her contract. No written contract? Not a good place to start from then...
 
Re: Video feed- permission/credit/fees

Brad Weber said:
US copyright law holds responsible all parties who benefit from any copyright infringement so while very unlikely to be an issue, you do potentially have some liability. Somewhat like the fact that the venue is not the one performing, however they are typically benefiting from the performance and directly contributing to it being a public performance and thus are often held accountable for procuring the associated public performance rights and for any infringements.

If you charge for and/or are credited for providing the mix for recording then that seems to create a definitive benefit and to possibly increase your potential liability unless you have specifically addressed the related rights either by obtaining them or having another party accept that responsibility. Also consider that your mix might be considered a unique work and thus unless you are doing it as 'work for hire' or assign those rights then you may have some rights to it so it is probably in all parties' interests to clarify all of the copyrights issues.
Click to expand...

When they Signed the contract to work within the public school building they took sole responsibility of obtaining rights to performance and music. I also working under the school and there for their contract was covered by said contract. I was paid hourly by the school, The school was paid a flat sum prior to the show it wasn't based on ticket sales just on how long the space was rented and what equipment was used. That adds another layer of confusion because technically we didn't benefit from the show we benefited from someone wanting to use our space. Not to mention I was not privy to know what legal rights they had for the material.
 
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