Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

The last club I was a staff engineer at had a 40 channel Soundcraft GB8 in my favorite of the three rooms. This is the set up we used and left patched in: Gates channels 1-7 except chan 3, 2 extra with patch cords, Compressors channels 10 and 11, Compressors channels 17-20, two extra with patch cords. Four effects units returned on the four stereo channels to the right of channel 24.

This set up gave us gates on all the drums except the hat and two roaming. Kik, snare, hat, tom1, tom2, tom3, tom4, or sometimes kik1, kik2, hat, snare, etc. Compression on bass and accoustic, compression on vox1, vox2, vox3, vox4, two roaming. The 16 channels (25-40) to the right of the master were used if we soundchecked the headliner and did not share channels.

This set up worked really well and was a luxury if we were festival style and sharing all channels. I usually had at least 5 acts per night with no more than a 15 minute changeover between acts, usually we did it in 10 minutes.
 
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Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

One thing about Lexicon PCM80/81/90/91/92 -- For every ten BEs who ask for one on the rider, maybe two actually know their way around the user interface.

If you have the minimum eight channels each of quality comps and gates, then it might also be a good idea to have something like an ACP88 for the support acts when the headline BE refuses to allow channel sharing or repatching.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Dave Barnett said:
One thing about Lexicon PCM80/81/90/91/92 -- For every ten BEs who ask for one on the rider, maybe two actually know their way around the user interface.

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Only because the UI is So darned obtuse.... I usually find something that sounds pretty and just leave it alone. Otherwise it just makes my brain hurt....
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Dave Barnett said:
One thing about Lexicon PCM80/81/90/91/92 -- For every ten BEs who ask for one on the rider, maybe two actually know their way around the user interface.

If you have the minimum eight channels each of quality comps and gates, then it might also be a good idea to have something like an ACP88 for the support acts when the headline BE refuses to allow channel sharing or repatching.
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Yes to both. If the ACP88 works it is certainly better than no comps or gates and actually better than most of the cheap stuff. I still have one floating around in one of my B racks. The problems I have had are with the inserts for the key. If you use a small 1/4" patch cord to bridge the send and receive they always work for me, or if you are really slick you can actually use a cheap EQ and have a key filter.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Eric Cagle said:
Yes to both. If the ACP88 works it is certainly better than no comps or gates and actually better than most of the cheap stuff. I still have one floating around in one of my B racks. The problems I have had are with the inserts for the key. If you use a small 1/4" patch cord to bridge the send and receive they always work for me, or if you are really slick you can actually use a cheap EQ and have a key filter.
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Thanks guys, I will have things such as ACP88s and lower grade comps/gates in other racks for my Mackie Onyx 1640 (which I actually enjoy for smaller shows). Those racks can always be brought out to supplement openers if I run out, but the goal is to have enough quality stuff for those gigs that the MH4 is on. This is also a project that Im building for myself to enjoy as well. Hopefully I can still make some money with a setup like this!


Evan
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Evan F. Hunter said:
Thanks guys, I will have things such as ACP88s and lower grade comps/gates in other racks for my Mackie Onyx 1640 (which I actually enjoy for smaller shows). Those racks can always be brought out to supplement openers if I run out, but the goal is to have enough quality stuff for those gigs that the MH4 is on. This is also a project that Im building for myself to enjoy as well. Hopefully I can still make some money with a setup like this!


Evan
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"Can't make any money on audio anyway."
-Sound Forums Network: Low Earth Orbit- Pro AV, Staging, and Rigging
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Evan F. Hunter said:
Aint that the sad truth sometimes. Thats why Im building what I want to work on :) sounds like it will be rider friendly as well if anyone still accepts analog.
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Not accepting analog would be like refusing Filet Mignon.

I am actually quite irritated with the lack of want/need for good audio nowadays. Drives me nuts.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Brandon Blakeney said:
I see Heritage 3000 and MH4 on almost every rider I get at my level. I have seen more than one rider that said "no digital," but never one that said no analog.
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We get "no analog" once in a while, along with "no Behringer, Peavey, Mackie, Yamaha PM-3000". Only had 1 "no digital" in the last 3 years.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Brandon Blakeney said:
It seems silly that someone would say no analog when someone else is doing all of the lugging and patching for them.
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I'd take analog anywhere and everywhere if it weren't for the few tons it weighs.

I would assume that the idea is that they don't want the "bad" analog sound that has happened in the past. You know what this is- that irritating high ring, the muffled mids, the distorted bass. Oh wait! That's all from the speakers. Sometimes people forget that digital has not been the only advancement of sound out there.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Max Warasila said:
I'd take analog anywhere and everywhere if it weren't for the few tons it weighs.

I would assume that the idea is that they don't want the "bad" analog sound that has happened in the past. You know what this is- that irritating high ring, the muffled mids, the distorted bass. Oh wait! That's all from the speakers. Sometimes people forget that digital has not been the only advancement of sound out there.
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I was under the impression that the consensus was that quality analog consoles like Midas and Soundcraft actually sounded better than the digitals?
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Brandon Blakeney said:
I was under the impression that the consensus was that quality analog consoles like Midas and Soundcraft actually sounded better than the digitals?
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I think we have firmly passed the point of this being factual and now is more of a preference....

I like masterbating to analog just as much as the next guy, but modern digital consoles sound fantastic.

YMMV
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Brandon Blakeney said:
I was under the impression that the consensus was that quality analog consoles like Midas and Soundcraft actually sounded better than the digitals?
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Maybe. I think they do sound better, but I think the biggest thing digital has going for it is 1. Convenience, I cant tell you how many bands setup on stage, Patch their digital board into my system and say well we will be back at XX:XX time and we dont need a sound check, its all saved in the board. o_O those shows nearly always sounded like ass. They also have the convenience of knowing its going to work, How many venues have a setup where you walk it and its a nice rig, but oh this and his doesn't work or it just plain and simple hasnt been maintained. The number 2. thing digital has its its size and weight. Its a powerful tool and a quality digital can probably sound better just as good for 1/4 or less of the weight of an analog FOH. I actually really enjoy mixing on Digital but not as much as a proper analog setup, which is why I am building this.

All that being said my mixing style is a tad different then most, physically I guess. On an Analog board I can feel my way around quickly without looking, I like to watch the band and the crowd not menus. Once soundcheck is over the little lites get turned off and I can usually adjust very quickly and very effeciently while also just blending right into the environment. Maybe I am crazy but it works well for me.
 
Re: Analog FOH, Outboard opinions/preferences

Brandon Blakeney said:
I see Heritage 3000 and MH4 on almost every rider I get at my level. I have seen more than one rider that said "no digital," but never one that said no analog.
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That sounds about right.

The ones that ACTUALLY NEED digital are usually carrying.

I've seen some BE's have quite drastic scene changes defined for each song in the show, such that it would not be feasible to do quickly and reliably on an analog rig. Incidentally, some of these BE's came from theater background, which makes sense....

As much as I am a happy digital user and fan, for the types of gigs I usually do (one offs), I would usually rather have the Heritage and tons of great outboard were it not so inconvenient to patch and transport. Not to mention how it makes you feel like a proud sound guy to stand in front of one of those. Standing in front of some digital boards like the LS9 certainly don't have the commanding presence and gee-whiz factor.

That's one of my frustrations with some of the new audio tech - impressive performance, but missing some of the "bling bling", which in my opinion can take away some of the wow factor of sound engineering from the perspective of a casual onlooker. I know I would pay extra for a company to throw extra effort towards making a product LOOK awesome. How we are perceived and respected is important for success IMHO, and something that looks like generic office equipment doesn't help.
 
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