I am seeing ads for a lot of new small line array cabs. A lot if them are very small vertically, which seems would lead to less lower frequency pattern control as the actual arrays get smaller.
Am I wrong about this?
Am I wrong about this?
Small Line Array cabinet physics?
- Thread starter John Chiara
- Start date
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
No, you are not wrong, and I'll add that putting up more small, lower output boxes to make the line longer will help in the low-mids and LF, but does nothing for long term output nor does it necessarily "help" HF coverage over distance (avoiding the word 'throw' here).
No, you are not wrong, and I'll add that putting up more small, lower output boxes to make the line longer will help in the low-mids and LF, but does nothing for long term output nor does it necessarily "help" HF coverage over distance (avoiding the word 'throw' here).
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
The thing that people "forget" is that it is the TOTAL height-NOT the number of boxes that gives the "line array effect".
So if you are using smaller boxes-it will take more of them to "have the same result".
But the marketing depts try to "gloss over" that aspect.
The physics don't change because the box is smaller.
But since they are less expensive-people can buy the same number and spend less-of course the performance is also less--------------------------
But as soon as one person started selling "mini line arrays" everybody "jumped on board". Just another example of "me too" mentality---------------
The thing that people "forget" is that it is the TOTAL height-NOT the number of boxes that gives the "line array effect".
So if you are using smaller boxes-it will take more of them to "have the same result".
But the marketing depts try to "gloss over" that aspect.
The physics don't change because the box is smaller.
But since they are less expensive-people can buy the same number and spend less-of course the performance is also less--------------------------
But as soon as one person started selling "mini line arrays" everybody "jumped on board". Just another example of "me too" mentality---------------
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
Back when we were shopping for line arrays, I observed that you purchase "by the foot." You can get a lot of smaller boxes for about the same $$$ as fewer big boxes that equal the same length. What isn't equal is the output capability.
Back when we were shopping for line arrays, I observed that you purchase "by the foot." You can get a lot of smaller boxes for about the same $$$ as fewer big boxes that equal the same length. What isn't equal is the output capability.
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
I do agree that a few products like the Vue 4" thing are a little odd, and am not sure what application that product is the best choice for.
What also isn't equal is weight, hanging flexibility, amp channels required, etc. There are still a few reasons to buy smaller than 4889, if you don't need a 140dB+ PA.
I do agree that a few products like the Vue 4" thing are a little odd, and am not sure what application that product is the best choice for.
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
Oh it doesn't get as loud and doesn't sound as good-but "that's OK" It's smaller and costs the same. Unless of course you want to just ignore the FUNDAMENTAL physics of a line array and just use a couple of boxes-----------------------------.
I bet a huge majority of the "users/specers" of line arrays have no idea that the total length is what determines how much "line array behavior" there is at a particular freq.
They probably think it stays the same-NOT!
But why bother to actually understand and think-when you can just recite some add copy and make believe it is fact--------------------
As long as you sound convincing enough-then it MUST be true.
And when you add in the fact that the HFs are going to have a lot more separation (due to the thickness of the top and bottom of the cabinet and any spacing in between) than a fewer number of larger boxes-resulting in less clarity (specifically in the HF), then the advantage is ----------------
Oh it doesn't get as loud and doesn't sound as good-but "that's OK" It's smaller and costs the same. Unless of course you want to just ignore the FUNDAMENTAL physics of a line array and just use a couple of boxes-----------------------------.
I bet a huge majority of the "users/specers" of line arrays have no idea that the total length is what determines how much "line array behavior" there is at a particular freq.
They probably think it stays the same-NOT!
But why bother to actually understand and think-when you can just recite some add copy and make believe it is fact--------------------
As long as you sound convincing enough-then it MUST be true.
Also small line arrays often have bigger splay angles in order to cover front-2-back in small venues with few speakers (increments). For this to work they need more wavefront curvature in comparison to large format spreaders to prevent gaps in coverage between adjacent speakers at maximum splay. More wavefront curvature, like front-splay, leads to more unwanted energy outside the array as a whole.
http://www.nextdigital.com.br/AES2001_Ureda_Line Arrays.pdf
http://www.nextdigital.com.br/AES2001_Ureda_Line Arrays.pdf
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
It's the natural progression of people assuming line arrays as 'better'. Plus it sells more boxes/drivers/amps/processing.
Pretty soon we'll have line array computer speakers, for goodness' sake! What next, line array headphones?
It's the natural progression of people assuming line arrays as 'better'. Plus it sells more boxes/drivers/amps/processing.
Pretty soon we'll have line array computer speakers, for goodness' sake! What next, line array headphones?
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
It will be the next HD. It has become so popular that the term HD is showing up on products that have nothing to do with HD.
Just like speakers that are "digital ready". Meaning that you can't play a crappy 64K MP3 through some 1930s speakers?
It is quite amazing how the general public (and lots of professionals as well) are so easily fooled by marketing----------------------------
Why not?-you do realize that inverse square losses are a major problem with headphones-----------------
It will be the next HD. It has become so popular that the term HD is showing up on products that have nothing to do with HD.
Just like speakers that are "digital ready". Meaning that you can't play a crappy 64K MP3 through some 1930s speakers?
It is quite amazing how the general public (and lots of professionals as well) are so easily fooled by marketing----------------------------
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
I also agree I found the application of the Vue 4 system a bit odd. But they do have the al-8 version now and it looks like they will be adding a 10 as well. I am curious how they 8 (and 10) will sound compared to the other small to medium size systems like RCF HDL, DB-t4, etc.
I also agree I found the application of the Vue 4 system a bit odd. But they do have the al-8 version now and it looks like they will be adding a 10 as well. I am curious how they 8 (and 10) will sound compared to the other small to medium size systems like RCF HDL, DB-t4, etc.
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
Indeed, if you're going to have a short little array in your venue I'm going to be a lot happier getting it to be consistent if I have five angles to set instead of just two or three. I would pick a smaller box for these reasons every time... if your venue has a balcony but only seats 2K people, I want more angles. If your venue has a 15' ceiling and is 80' deep I want more angles. If there's only budget for three boxes, I don't care what the show is, I want more angles. If the PA has to be ground stacked I want to commit suicide.
Indeed, if you're going to have a short little array in your venue I'm going to be a lot happier getting it to be consistent if I have five angles to set instead of just two or three. I would pick a smaller box for these reasons every time... if your venue has a balcony but only seats 2K people, I want more angles. If your venue has a 15' ceiling and is 80' deep I want more angles. If there's only budget for three boxes, I don't care what the show is, I want more angles. If the PA has to be ground stacked I want to commit suicide.
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
Note to all, someone please restrain Bennett or remove him from the area if he comes into contact with a ground stacked system.
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
No this isn't the assumption, I do however feel like it is much easier to get even coverage front to back than most of the point source installs I see out there.
The next "line" product was the "line array microphone" - have fun and good luck
db
No this isn't the assumption, I do however feel like it is much easier to get even coverage front to back than most of the point source installs I see out there.
The next "line" product was the "line array microphone" - have fun and good luck
db
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
I am not certain if the above is humour or not. Microtech Gefell has been selling the model KEM970 microphone for several years. It is a line array microphone.
KEM970
Linearly writing,
Andre
I am not certain if the above is humour or not. Microtech Gefell has been selling the model KEM970 microphone for several years. It is a line array microphone.
KEM970
Linearly writing,
Andre
Re: Small Line Array cabinet physics?
The Beyerdynamic "Revoluto" is a "column array" mic and operates as such. Here is a video, the audio portion of which is coming from the Beyer which can be seen on the front lip of the lectern. Location was the large Cathedral overlooking downtown St Paul, MN.
Own The Room! - A Division of Blue Planet Training
17 small elements in an 11" long configuration.
The Beyerdynamic "Revoluto" is a "column array" mic and operates as such. Here is a video, the audio portion of which is coming from the Beyer which can be seen on the front lip of the lectern. Location was the large Cathedral overlooking downtown St Paul, MN.
Own The Room! - A Division of Blue Planet Training
17 small elements in an 11" long configuration.
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