Perceived loudness

Randy Gartner

Junior
Jan 12, 2011
465
18
18
72
Pennsylvania
randygartnersound.com
I work for 2 bands.One,a 6 piece oldies act which has been togther over 25 years and has a regional following.The other band is an 8 piece act ( 3 horns,guitar,bass keys,drums and vocals )that plays music ranging from Glen Miller to Lady Gaga,to Bon Jovi to Mowtown to Led Zepplin.Both bands have excellent musicians and are great to work with.The oldies band I almost never get complaints about it being too loud while the other act I almost always get at least one request to turn it down and see people leave at the beginning of the show. I have tried to tell the leader of the 8 piece act that the volume,neasured by a db meter is about the same.The difference is the material.Both bands play at Fairs where you mainly have an older crowd.The older crowd is very familiar with the oldies act's tunes," Buddy Holly,Carl Perkins,Elvis, Mitch Ryder,Dion etc.They know and love the tunes.You can see people singing along with almost every song. While the 8 piece act plays a few of those tunes,they always want to start off with something really dynamic ( loud) and many of the songs are unfamiliar to the crowds.While I generally run the levels for both bands about the same,I believe the difference is the music.If they are familiar with the music,they don't mind if it is loud.If they are not familiar with it,then it's too loud.I have done fairs where both bands played one night after each other.The system was deployed the same way,at the same levels but the 8 piece act was too loud while the oldies act's volume was fine.In fact, I often kick up the volume with the oldies act as the night goes on,while I find myself fighting to keep the mix contained with the 8 piece group.It's very frustrating.Kind of like a church I attended for many years.They had a praise band.If the pipe organ was hitting 105db while the old folks were singing " Onward Christian Solders" that was ok,but if the praise band hit 90db it was too loud. Go figure!
 
Re: Perceived loudness

I don't think anyone will disagree with you on this, anybody who has been doing this for long has certainly observed this.

If they don't like it, it is too loud at any volume.

Some events I have been part of purchase foam earplugs and give them away free to anyone who wants them. Usually there are a few people who will take them up on the offer, and it seems to squash the "too loud" camp.


At risk of taking your thread on a tangent, I find in some cases people DO mix too loud, because it is often EASIER to mix this way. Mixing at lower volumes takes a bit more finesse IMHO. I've been guilty of this before but do try to be conscious of it. I see this is a very common thing among BE's at various levels, although less so in theatre etc.
 
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Re: Perceived loudness

Generally any younger generation's music is indistinguishable from noise... Loud music is more tolerable than loud noise. QED

JR
And that is ESPECIALLY true with the latest EDM music-which is (sorry if I offend anybody) "Noise with a beat".

It can be entertaining (especially though a good system)-but is basically "noise sources-with some other music mixed in.
 
Re: Perceived loudness

And that is ESPECIALLY true with the latest EDM music-which is (sorry if I offend anybody) "Noise with a beat".

It can be entertaining (especially though a good system)-but is basically "noise sources-with some other music mixed in.

I'm 34 and have been keeping up and listening to electronic dance music since the late 80s.

and i fully agree with you! There is still plenty of interesting music being made, but the stuff you guys in the states generally encounter on the big systems does not sound like it has a long shelf life.

still, it cant be all that bad if it is pushing technology and earning techs and systems money
 
Re: Perceived loudness

I work for 2 bands.One,a 6 piece oldies act which has been togther over 25 years and has a regional following.The other band is an 8 piece act ( 3 horns,guitar,bass keys,drums and vocals )

Big bands with lots of horns sound loud.
Even when the amps aren't too loud and the drummer's under control

Watch people flinch when 3 horns do a stab together. Especially if a trumpet is involved
 
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Re: Perceived loudness

Big bands with lots of horns sound loud.
Even when the amps aren't too loud and the drummer's under control

Watch people flinch when 3 horns do a stab together. Especially if a trumpet is involved
Trumpets (especially when competing) are loud. They are trying to outdo each other.

What does one trumpet player say to another when they meet? "Hi my name is Joe and I am better than you"