2 Si Performers sharing a MiniStagebox - Figured it out

Hey all! I dont know if any of you have tried this but it took me quite a while to make it work. I thought Id share what I found out since Soundcraft's documentation doesn't splain it very well.

I have a Performer 3, a Performer 1 and a MiniStagebox32. I am hoping to use the 3 for FOH and the 1 for monitors on some gigs, both consoles "sharing" the StageBox and have (at least some) gain independence between the 2 consoles.

I struggled for quite a while trying to make it happen but I finally go it. Here is the deal:

Si Performer 3 with dual cat5 MADI card
Si Performer 1 with dual cat5 MADI card - had to buy this
MiniStagebox32 with dual cat5 MADI card (HD)


FOH Performer MADI aux > straight-through cat5 cable > Stagebox32 MADI aux
FOH Performer MADI main > crossover cat5 cable > Monitor Performer MADI main


Turn on the Stagebox
Turn on the FOH Performer
Go to preferences and turn D.O.G.S. on
Map the FOH Performer channel inputs to the inputs of the Stagebox32
Map the FOH Performer channel direct outs to MADI channels 33 - 64
Map the FOH Performer outputs (L & R, sub, fills - whatever you need for your house system) to the outputs on the Stagebox
Power up power up the Monitor Performer
Map the Monitor Performer channel inputs to MADI channels 33 - 64
Map the Monitor Performer outputs that you need for monitor mixes to the outputs on the Monitor Performer itself


The FOH Performer will be in charge of the mic pres so that is where you set the channel input level for both consoles. The Monitor Performer gain pots will now act as a trim. It wont control the actual gain but it gives you the ability to increase or decrease the incoming signal level without affecting the gain at the FOH Performer. Because of D.O.G.S. adjusting the actual gain at the FOH Performer will not affect the signal sent to the Monitor Performer unless you make a large adjustment. I think Soundcraft says "large" is >6dB.


This setup does allow 2 Performers to "share" a stagebox and have at least some semblance of independent channel gains but its a bit awkward.


The workflow is odd because you have to set channel gains at FOH before you can set trims in monitor world. You could set it up the other way where the monitor console controls the stagebox but then you would have to run analogue lines for the house system outputs.
You have to run 2 cat5 cables from FOH to the stage and 1 of them has to be a crossover cable.
It eliminates the possibility of having redundant cat5 cables.
If FOH goes down, so do the monitors. (I don't think the reverse is true though).
Some folks have said that because of boot order, if FOH goes down the monitor console will take control of the Stagebox but I don't believe that is true because the monitor console isn't connected to the stagebox, its connected only to the FOH console. I have set it up where both consoles are connected to the stagebox and in that case, maybe. The problem with that is that any gain adjustment on the console that controls the stagebox affects the other console.


These issues appear to be because of the way MADI works, its not particular to Soundcraft. I am wondering if DANTE would solve these - does anyone have any input on that?
I dont think Soundcraft has released a DANTE card for the Stageboxes yet but Ill keep my eyes open.
Ofcourse I guess I could just get a decent 32x32 analogue splitter snake and do it right :lol:

PS - yes I copied and pasted from that other forum, sorry - too much to type twice...)(
 
Re: 2 Si Performers sharing a MiniStagebox - Figured it out

Because of D.O.G.S. adjusting the actual gain at the FOH Performer will not affect the signal sent to the Monitor Performer unless you make a large adjustment. I think Soundcraft says "large" is >6dB.


This setup does allow 2 Performers to "share" a stagebox and have at least some semblance of independent channel gains but its a bit awkward.

I would prefer to have the monitor desk to have main control of the gain...
6dB is not much. At FOH I can adapt to changing gain levels, at the monitor position you are possible to late or wondering why feedback does occur.
 
Re: 2 Si Performers sharing a MiniStagebox - Figured it out

I would prefer to have the monitor desk to have main control of the gain...
6dB is not much. At FOH I can adapt to changing gain levels, at the monitor position you are possible to late or wondering why feedback does occur.

I would too but I'm hoping to use the AES outputs on the Stagebox32 to feed my Itechs for the house system which means the FOH console has to have control of the Stagebox...
 
Re: 2 Si Performers sharing a MiniStagebox - Figured it out

PS - I messed around a bit more last night and found that using a dual card in 1 console and a single card in the other does work. I had originally bought an SB32 and an SB16. I got the SB16 because it had a card and only cost a little more than buying the card alone. After not being able to make it work someone told me that I had to have dual cards in both consoles so I bought a 2nd dual - didnt need to.

I also found that D.O.G.S. seems to stabilize gain even if you change it as much as 18dB or more at the master console.

Jeff