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The Basement
2011 U.S. Budget Cut in Perspective
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<blockquote data-quote="John Roberts" data-source="post: 33841" data-attributes="member: 126"><p>Re: 2011 U.S. Budget Cut in Perspective</p><p></p><p>What friggin rulz...?</p><p></p><p>It's actually worse than that... The congress and WH have not passed a budget in years. So those numbers are what a budget "would look like" if we actually had one. </p><p></p><p>The borrowing (debt) limit is a bad joke. Every time they approach it they just increase it, like they have every other time before now (and this time too). The only difference this time that we can be remotely optimistic about, is that instead of the typical rubber stamp increase of times past, this time they at least pretended to go through the motions of taking it seriously. But guess what... if the limit was actually a limit, you wouldn't wait until you bump up against it to review and change it... you would manage your spending so you don't bump into it. More correctly that is a debt target that they aim for and hit every damn time. </p><p></p><p>========</p><p>For some more perspective, the total debt divided by our total population is a scary $45k or so. This is not per family or household, but per person, so the per family or per breadwinner debt is closer to your $150k or more (coincidence?). We owe this money! This is real debt that we are obligated to pay back. I wonder if the illegal immigrants would be so desirous of signing up for their fair share of this? I grow weary of this Ponzi scheme - chain letter mentality that because we could always borrow easily in the past we can always continue to. Some day the spigot will run dry (a debt downgrade is expected soon). </p><p></p><p>There are valid times and reasons for countries to have a short term deficit budget (like wars and economic down turns). So I don't embrace a strict balanced budget, but a reasonably hard debt limit as a percentage of GDP makes a lot of sense (to me). Also just like the pro forma household can justify some amount of long term borrowing, our government can justify that too, but in most cases this is better done at the local level where debt and debt obligation is more correlated. Federal spending in local districts is routinely treated like spending OPM, and what they masquerade as investments are embarrassing. </p><p></p><p>We are approaching the 10 year anniversary of this "war against terrorism" with no big picture victory lap in sight (while I expect some redefinition of goals soon to try to justify winding down). IMO this military expenditure should have been included in the regular budget, after the first few years or so. It is probably responsible for $1T of the debt (and we haven't stopped spending yet). Perhaps scarier than that are the expansion of social program entitlements justified with funny accounting and funnier projections. The same guys who projected that unemployment would rise as high as 8% if they didn't go all Keynesian on us. Who knows maybe we would have bottomed out and recovered by now? I will concede that there would have been more short term pain for the beneficiaries of the government largess. Long term I'm not so sure about the total pain we will endure this way. </p><p></p><p>I am optimistic that every two years we get a few more adults elected into congress, but I almost wish we still had the original system where the federal senators were appointed by the state legislatures. I suspect this might have held some of the expansion and abuse of federal power at least partially in check. </p><p></p><p>Thank you Langston for sharing this... most people don't appreciate that this is "our" debt. </p><p></p><p>I have some ideas for how we could improve things but I am trying to not be any more inflammatory than normal. </p><p></p><p>JR</p><p></p><p>Note: I deleted a much longer response that was TMI, but in short it took us years and both party's active involvement to get in this deep in a hole. We need to stop digging it deeper and rethink things.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Roberts, post: 33841, member: 126"] Re: 2011 U.S. Budget Cut in Perspective What friggin rulz...? It's actually worse than that... The congress and WH have not passed a budget in years. So those numbers are what a budget "would look like" if we actually had one. The borrowing (debt) limit is a bad joke. Every time they approach it they just increase it, like they have every other time before now (and this time too). The only difference this time that we can be remotely optimistic about, is that instead of the typical rubber stamp increase of times past, this time they at least pretended to go through the motions of taking it seriously. But guess what... if the limit was actually a limit, you wouldn't wait until you bump up against it to review and change it... you would manage your spending so you don't bump into it. More correctly that is a debt target that they aim for and hit every damn time. ======== For some more perspective, the total debt divided by our total population is a scary $45k or so. This is not per family or household, but per person, so the per family or per breadwinner debt is closer to your $150k or more (coincidence?). We owe this money! This is real debt that we are obligated to pay back. I wonder if the illegal immigrants would be so desirous of signing up for their fair share of this? I grow weary of this Ponzi scheme - chain letter mentality that because we could always borrow easily in the past we can always continue to. Some day the spigot will run dry (a debt downgrade is expected soon). There are valid times and reasons for countries to have a short term deficit budget (like wars and economic down turns). So I don't embrace a strict balanced budget, but a reasonably hard debt limit as a percentage of GDP makes a lot of sense (to me). Also just like the pro forma household can justify some amount of long term borrowing, our government can justify that too, but in most cases this is better done at the local level where debt and debt obligation is more correlated. Federal spending in local districts is routinely treated like spending OPM, and what they masquerade as investments are embarrassing. We are approaching the 10 year anniversary of this "war against terrorism" with no big picture victory lap in sight (while I expect some redefinition of goals soon to try to justify winding down). IMO this military expenditure should have been included in the regular budget, after the first few years or so. It is probably responsible for $1T of the debt (and we haven't stopped spending yet). Perhaps scarier than that are the expansion of social program entitlements justified with funny accounting and funnier projections. The same guys who projected that unemployment would rise as high as 8% if they didn't go all Keynesian on us. Who knows maybe we would have bottomed out and recovered by now? I will concede that there would have been more short term pain for the beneficiaries of the government largess. Long term I'm not so sure about the total pain we will endure this way. I am optimistic that every two years we get a few more adults elected into congress, but I almost wish we still had the original system where the federal senators were appointed by the state legislatures. I suspect this might have held some of the expansion and abuse of federal power at least partially in check. Thank you Langston for sharing this... most people don't appreciate that this is "our" debt. I have some ideas for how we could improve things but I am trying to not be any more inflammatory than normal. JR Note: I deleted a much longer response that was TMI, but in short it took us years and both party's active involvement to get in this deep in a hole. We need to stop digging it deeper and rethink things. [/QUOTE]
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