4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Lisa Lane-Collins

Lisa Lane-Collins

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2012
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Adelaide, Australia
I'm using 4 Mackie Thumps as fold back in a venue at the moment, haven't had any complaints so I shall assume they provide more that adequate foldback. I want them for other applications though so I'm looking to replace.

At this point in time it seems I could go one of two ways. I could buy two speakers capable of putting out 400/800 watts rms respectively (aka eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d or Derringers home of JBL MRX512M Loudspeaker Top Box FOH Wedge 2 way ). Or I could go for four of something with a much lower RMS but also much cheaper (such as DE Acoustics 300W RMS Passive Speaker | Swamp).

Taking into account the need to buy amps as well, I'm reckoning the cost comes to about $2000 either way so what's the better choice?

I Was drawn to the much louder speakers because I want some more high end equipment and I reckon two loud fold should be able to fill the stage (despite protestations about not being able to make custom mixes for every musician - in fact, the one time I mixed there I only had 2 Thumps for foldback and it was fine). Some time down the track when I have more savings I could buy another two Loud foldbacks, it would be cool. Another tick in the box of loud foldback, at least with the JBLs is I could pinch them for FOH elsewhere when needed. Conversely, I feel like having four foldback speakers (even though they are a lower RMS) will probably lull musicians into a sense of playing a stage that is well equipped (aka psychology trumps technicalities).

Thoughts?

PS I've looked high and low for alternative foldback options around the 400 watt RMS range (pref passive) and can't seem to find anything (in Adelaide, South Australia). Actually considering the RMS, there is No point in buying the JBLs from Derringers at almost $1000 each, only the ones off of ebay...
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Specs can be deceiving and even if they were not they don't tell the whole story. Some speakers sound better than others and some just sound bad. It is best to listen before you buy and preferably in an AB situation with a known reference. I am not sure how you are deploying the speakers but as a general rule 2 more powerful cabinets will sound better than 4 smaller ones with all the interference and comb filtering going on.
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

It's SPL, not watts for output (Loudness) measurement. SPL tells you how much volume it'll put out. Watts tells you how much power it'll handle in getting there and gives a hint to sizing the amp. BUT (caps a la Ivan)..........

How are the specs derived? What do they really mean? At what distance and at what frequency? Over how long a period? With what program source? Etc, etc....
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Ok sweet, looking for continuous SPL now. Easy to find for this speaker http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MRX Series/MRX512M.pdf for some reason omitted from the tech specs of this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/JRX Series/JRX112m.pdf Can anyone divine from these specs what this speaker's SPL might be? Same question with this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/SRX700 Series/SRX712M.pdf

Could speaker manufacturers be more consistent with their tech speccing?! Nahhhhh

Much appreciating the input thus far :)
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Ok sweet, looking for continuous SPL now. Easy to find for this speaker http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MRX%20Series/MRX512M.pdf for some reason omitted from the tech specs of this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/JRX Series/JRX112m.pdf Can anyone divine from these specs what this speaker's SPL might be? Same question with this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/SRX700 Series/SRX712M.pdf

Could speaker manufacturers be more consistent with their tech speccing?! Nahhhhh

Much appreciating the input thus far :)
Click to expand...

The calculation is quite easy, for the JRX112 it is 99+10xlog(250)=123, for the SRX712 96+10xlog(800)=125 and for the MRX512 the same calculation will give you the number stated 96+10xlog(400)=123. . Add 3 and 6 dB for program and peak, and don't be fooled into thinking the SRX712 is only very marginally louder then the other two, the 712 can produce much cleaner sound noticably louder for a much longer time and have much clearer peaks.
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

As to the number of wedges you'll want....

The more the merrier. It's not about how loud they are, it's about coverage. You'll want the performers to be able to be in the "sweet spot", so one wedge/performer is your minimum. Trying to get one wedge to cover two people......not so hot.
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
Ok sweet, looking for continuous SPL now. Easy to find for this speaker http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/MRX Series/MRX512M.pdf for some reason omitted from the tech specs of this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/JRX Series/JRX112m.pdf Can anyone divine from these specs what this speaker's SPL might be? Same question with this one http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/SRX700 Series/SRX712M.pdf

Could speaker manufacturers be more consistent with their tech speccing?! Nahhhhh

Much appreciating the input thus far :)
Click to expand...
It is also a lot more than just "continuous SPL". For example-is that SPL ACROSS THE OPERATING BAND-or is it some peak in the freq response?

There are a number of products (some very expensive) that use a single freq as the SPL. Yet the loudspeaker is not capable of producing that SPL across the operating band. And that freq has to be "pulled down" to match the rest of the freq response. I have seen numbers that are well over 10dB off. Is that important?

Sometimes you have to do A LOT MORE DIGGING-to get the REAL answers. Simple answers are very often simply wrong-particularly in audio specs.
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Another question would be, what are you intending to run through them? Vocals only, Vox and Guitar, Bass and Kick or the whole band?? that also can be a deciding factor in the selection process.
I use 4 x EAW VRM12's and for me and the stuff I do, they work really well (Vocals,guitar and some keys mainly. Bass or drums..... forget it).
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

It really comes down to what you're looking to do. Generally speaking and understanding not all specs are apples to apples, "louder" boxes are going to be higher quality boxes. You have to decide if 4 lesser quality boxes or 2 better boxes make more sense to you. As you've already pointed out, louder (probably better) boxes will serve you better for FOH substitutes. The downside is you may not have all the monitors you need to do the job.

If you absolutely have to have 4 now and can't beg or borrow, then I guess that's the answer. The fact you're asking about only 2 tells me, although not ideal, you may be able to get away with 2. If that's the case I would recommend getting 2 better quality boxes and saving up for 2 more down the road. This way you're not left with subpar gear that will prematurely fail, not be up to task, and you'll likely lose a good chunk of money on later when upgrading. That said, if you can find 4 lackluster boxes used then your risk is minimized as you can likely sell them with minimal to no loss. Doing this I've even occasionally made a few bucks when reselling.
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Per Søvik said:
the 712 can produce much cleaner sound noticably louder for a much longer time and have much clearer peaks.
Click to expand...

The unwritten point of difference.

Have come to think - get the SRX712s - use as FOH in a second PA, hire fold when I need it (maybe occasionally steal the Mackies and replace with the JBLs when I get a gig with people who remember and like the Mackie experience)
 
Re: 4 quieter foldbacks versus 2 louder ones

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
The unwritten point of difference.

Have come to think - get the SRX712s - use as FOH in a second PA, hire fold when I need it (maybe occasionally steal the Mackies and replace with the JBLs when I get a gig with people who remember and like the Mackie experience)
Click to expand...

We purchased 16 of the last production run of the SRX712M precisely because they were the only box that did *both* wedge and SoS tasks well. The 15kg weight is a pleasing bonus. :)
 
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