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Low Earth Orbit
DIY Audio
60 Degree DIY Mid Hi - AKA PM60
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<blockquote data-quote="Peter Morris" data-source="post: 148497" data-attributes="member: 652"><p>Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks Evan,</p><p></p><p>Everyone’s input in to this project has been great. The biggest issue is developing good pre-sets on all the different platforms. Thanks for helping with this <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /></p><p></p><p>With the latest’s FIR pre-sets we have not lost a shoot-out to anyone yet, and for its size and frequency range - 100Hz – 20KHz, it’s as loud as anything out there that I have been able to find, but I suspect I have been less conservative with the limiter settings than Max.</p><p></p><p>The Lake LM 26 that I am using also allows excellent limiting and protection for the driver so you can get the maximum output. I’m also running the HF driver two-way so I can get the absolute maximum out of the driver safely; I’m not sure what Max has done (?)</p><p></p><p>FWIW the M4 uses a variant of this B&C driver <a href="http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/coaxial/15-0/8/15hcx76" target="_blank">http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/coaxial/15-0/8/15hcx76</a> and here is a picture of the driver and inside the box <a href="http://soundman.com.ua/2014/01/testirovanie-koaksial-ny-h-stsenicheskih-monitorov/2/" target="_blank">http://soundman.com.ua/2014/01/testirovanie-koaksial-ny-h-stsenicheskih-monitorov/2/</a></p><p></p><p>The B&C 12” I used has more or less the same power handling and efficiency as the M4’s 15" except there are 2 of them in a ported horn, so I would expect if the DIY was pushed as much as the processing in the d&b system allowed, it would be at least 6 - 8 dB louder. It’s the cleaver limiting and processing that allows d&b to extract every possible dB and not fail or sound compressed … and that’s one of the things you are paying for <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />.</p><p></p><p>When you compare the BMS4594 to the M200/VHF100, the BMS is slightly more efficient, takes slightly more power while covering the same frequency range. The bigger horn in the 960 would however have an advantage over the RCF HF950 used in the 90 degree DIY. The 960 only has 65 of horizontal coverage and is probably best compared with the 60 degree DIY … and yes its needs a better name<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /> <em> ... suggestions welcome</em></p><p></p><p>The 60 degree version has 2 – 3 dB more SPL than the 90 degree version. </p><p></p><p>The low section of the DIY maintains its output down to 100Hz, the 960 dies away from about 200Hz. I actually modelled my best guess of the SLS 960 and TW Audio's T24 (below) low section before I built the DIY. I thought these were both excellent designs.</p><p></p><p>The 960, T24 and DIY will give you about the same above 200 Hz for the same input; the DIY will give you 2 – 3 dB more between 100Hz and 200Hz because of the longer horn … getting efficiency out of that last 100Hz is hard if you want to keep the box small. </p><p></p><p>I’m really interested in your sub … is it similar to a B2 in design? What I have found is that I need about 3 really good 18” drivers (e.g. 18sound 18NLW9001) per side to keep up to one DIY. I suspect with a B2 type of design that is exactly what you are getting.</p><p></p><p>I really appreciate your input and I hope as a result Max and every one using “standard” IIR processors will benefit.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/SLS960_Spec.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/SLS960_Spec.pdf</a></p><p><a href="http://www.twaudio.de/en/individual-components/t-24" target="_blank">http://www.twaudio.de/en/individual-components/t-24</a></p><p><a href="https://soundforums.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=99896" target="_blank">https://soundforums.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=99896</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Peter Morris, post: 148497, member: 652"] Re: 60 Degree DIY Mid Hi Thanks Evan, Everyone’s input in to this project has been great. The biggest issue is developing good pre-sets on all the different platforms. Thanks for helping with this :-) With the latest’s FIR pre-sets we have not lost a shoot-out to anyone yet, and for its size and frequency range - 100Hz – 20KHz, it’s as loud as anything out there that I have been able to find, but I suspect I have been less conservative with the limiter settings than Max. The Lake LM 26 that I am using also allows excellent limiting and protection for the driver so you can get the maximum output. I’m also running the HF driver two-way so I can get the absolute maximum out of the driver safely; I’m not sure what Max has done (?) FWIW the M4 uses a variant of this B&C driver [URL]http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/coaxial/15-0/8/15hcx76[/URL] and here is a picture of the driver and inside the box [URL]http://soundman.com.ua/2014/01/testirovanie-koaksial-ny-h-stsenicheskih-monitorov/2/[/URL] The B&C 12” I used has more or less the same power handling and efficiency as the M4’s 15" except there are 2 of them in a ported horn, so I would expect if the DIY was pushed as much as the processing in the d&b system allowed, it would be at least 6 - 8 dB louder. It’s the cleaver limiting and processing that allows d&b to extract every possible dB and not fail or sound compressed … and that’s one of the things you are paying for :-). When you compare the BMS4594 to the M200/VHF100, the BMS is slightly more efficient, takes slightly more power while covering the same frequency range. The bigger horn in the 960 would however have an advantage over the RCF HF950 used in the 90 degree DIY. The 960 only has 65 of horizontal coverage and is probably best compared with the 60 degree DIY … and yes its needs a better name:-) [I] ... suggestions welcome[/I] The 60 degree version has 2 – 3 dB more SPL than the 90 degree version. The low section of the DIY maintains its output down to 100Hz, the 960 dies away from about 200Hz. I actually modelled my best guess of the SLS 960 and TW Audio's T24 (below) low section before I built the DIY. I thought these were both excellent designs. The 960, T24 and DIY will give you about the same above 200 Hz for the same input; the DIY will give you 2 – 3 dB more between 100Hz and 200Hz because of the longer horn … getting efficiency out of that last 100Hz is hard if you want to keep the box small. I’m really interested in your sub … is it similar to a B2 in design? What I have found is that I need about 3 really good 18” drivers (e.g. 18sound 18NLW9001) per side to keep up to one DIY. I suspect with a B2 type of design that is exactly what you are getting. I really appreciate your input and I hope as a result Max and every one using “standard” IIR processors will benefit. [url]http://www.communitypro.com/sites/default/files/SLS960_Spec.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.twaudio.de/en/individual-components/t-24[/url] [url]https://soundforums.net/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=99896[/url] [/QUOTE]
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