91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

C

Carlos del Valle

Freshman
Jan 14, 2014
14
0
0
Madrid, Spain
Hi there

We are playing a Festival in Costa Mesa today, and we are told that we have a 91dB SPL flat weighted limit, no A-weighted. Is this normal? Is the legislation really that restrictive or it depends on the promoter/local laws?

It seems to me that 90db flat is a joke. No show can have a resemblance of impact at that level. A-weighted, ok, but flat?.

A perfectly good way to waste a 16box array of MLA.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Carlos del Valle said:
Hi there

We are playing a Festival in Costa Mesa today, and we are told that we have a 91dB SPL flat weighted limit, no A-weighted. Is this normal? Is the legislation really that restrictive or it depends on the promoter/local laws?

It seems to me that 90db flat is a joke. No show can have a resemblance of impact at that level. A-weighted, ok, but flat?.

A perfectly good way to waste a 16box array of MLA.
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IS there a time reference mentioned?

Is it LEQ? If so, then you might be fine.

A SPL without a "time constant" does not tell a whole lot about the reason for the limit.

What happens if you exceed it? For how long or how much? Are you fined? Does the power automatically cut off?

A hard limiter could be your best bet to raise the average level. You just have to live with the squashed sound.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Carlos del Valle said:
Hi there

We are playing a Festival in Costa Mesa today, and we are told that we have a 91dB SPL flat weighted limit, no A-weighted.
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In addition to Ivan's questions, the location of the mic measuring the limit is a big deal, 91 dB at the property line could be way different than 91 dB at the house mix location.

As far as whether anything in Costa Mesa CA is normal, I'll leave that to those more familiar with the area, but there are a number of legislative actions in various parts of CA that don't seem "normal" to me ;^).
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Art Welter said:
In addition to Ivan's questions, the location of the mic measuring the limit is a big deal, 91 dB at the property line could be way different than 91 dB at the house mix location.

.
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OR in front of the PA.

TOTALLY agreed.

The measurement position could be the biggest factor.

And ALSO ASSUMING the measurement mic/system is properly calibrated.

And why 91dB vs 90dB? Seems like an odd number
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Carlos del Valle said:
Hi there

We are playing a Festival in Costa Mesa today, and we are told that we have a 91dB SPL flat weighted limit, no A-weighted. Is this normal? Is the legislation really that restrictive or it depends on the promoter/local laws?
Click to expand...

Were you at the Fairgrounds? They have very strict limits through out the venue and the surrounding neighborhoods. I don't recall the "flat" spec though.

I know that Costa Mesa has lost several law suits over noise levels that have cost the City a lot of money so I'm not surprised. There aren't any large open areas left in the City where you're not going to be next to a residential areas.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Yes, I believe it was the Fairgrounds. There were two people with radio shack sonometers, one at FOH another walking the venue. That's what seemed odd to me, that it all looked a bit arbitrary. No limiters, no time constant, only the guy tapping on our shoulder when we went above 95db (come the gig he raised the limit). There must be a powerful reason, because the rig and stage was fairly big, and there were some A level artists (Enrique Iglesias...) and it all sounded like a boombox. I mean, I get the noise complaints from residential areas, but I'd rather move the event somewhere else than having that joke of a show. It's definitely not good for the live image of the artists...
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Carlos del Valle said:
Yes, I believe it was the Fairgrounds. There were two people with radio shack sonometers, one at FOH another walking the venue. That's what seemed odd to me, that it all looked a bit arbitrary. No limiters, no time constant, only the guy tapping on our shoulder when we went above 95db (come the gig he raised the limit). There must be a powerful reason, because the rig and stage was fairly big, and there were some A level artists (Enrique Iglesias...) and it all sounded like a boombox. I mean, I get the noise complaints from residential areas, but I'd rather move the event somewhere else than having that joke of a show. It's definitely not good for the live image of the artists...
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Yet the artist's manager still book shows in those venues that make their clients look less appealing to the fan base.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Carlos del Valle said:
I get the noise complaints from residential areas, but I'd rather move the event somewhere else than having that joke of a show. It's definitely not good for the live image of the artists...
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I know the folks over there, they are a really decent group to work with but their lease with the County is always on the line so they have to be careful. I'm surprised to hear it didn't at least sound good. Sound Image is the house provider and they do a great job.

Unfortunately there are only two decent outdoor venues in OC, the Pac Am at the Fairgrounds and Irvine Meadows Amphitheater which will closing next year due to residential development all around it. Next up would be Anaheim Stadium or the Pond (indoors).

I worked a festival last weekend at Irvine Lake and there were only a few coyotes to bother out there but its not a properly developed complex.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Most importantly: Sign nothing!

There are implications that the soundmixer is solely responsible for all emissions from a venue, and this is simply untrue.

There are all manner of unforeseen failure modes in any system that could result in perhaps minutes-long high SPL. There is also crowd noise, truck issues, etc.

If everyone onsite is acting in "good faith" then no single person/entity should volunteer their signature to be first-stop liable.
 
Re: 91dB flat weighted in California? Really?

Jim McKeveny said:
Most importantly: Sign nothing!

There are implications that the soundmixer is solely responsible for all emissions from a venue, and this is simply untrue.
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Plus fucking one. Municipalities and SPL measurement is an arena you do not want to get into. The SPL specs are written usually by non-technical personnel, the measurements taken by non-technical personnel, and the enforcement is rarely handled appropriately. You don't want to have your money and freedom on the line when the cops pull up because a bunch of motorcyclists drove by the property line and triggered an alarm. Nobody I am aware of is storing frequency responses for over-limit events or recording the output of the mic to help diagnose what triggered the limit. At many venues the monitor system could easily be spilling LF over the property line as well, but you bet your ass they're not going to make the guy in the hot seat sign anything!
 
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