A tad demoralising

Lisa Lane-Collins

Lisa Lane-Collins

Sophomore
Dec 9, 2012
270
0
16
Adelaide, Australia
So the biggest hire company in town advertised for crew, and I applied, and did not even make it to the group interview which was peopled mostly by complete beginners. Ok fair enough maybe they want to train up from scratch for these jobs.

Then they advertised again for experienced techs this time, 3 years minimum. Well, I've been doing this for 8, I should be a shoe-in.

Finally received a reply from HR who obliged me on my request to know why I was being rejected if rejection was the case.

This is what she had to say

Thank you for your email. I’m aware that you have applied to *company name* a couple of times through other processes and have not been successful in receiving an interview. I’m sorry I didn’t realise when speaking with you on the phone.


As you have specifically requested feedback, I have spoken to our Operations Manager about why your application has not been accepted and can provide the following feedback.


I have been informed that you previously worked on a casual basis with *company name* for a short time. Our hiring policy is structured so that we can bring people into the organisation and allow them to show us what they can do and also test if they have the right attitude and fit for the business.


We take our brand very seriously and therefore a close fit in regards to attitude, aptitude and abilities is essential. You obviously have had experience since your time at *company name* so I’m assuming your abilities are sound.


Unfortunately, the staff that worked with you at the time did not believe that you had the right attitude and aptitude to become a full time *company name* staff member. Apparently there were some concerns with potential conflict other personalities already on staff and also a concern with reliability (apparently a number of shifts were rejected or not attended).


I’m not aware if this feedback was provided to you at the time and apologise if it was not.


I’m sure that you have probably grown in skill and confidence since then, however given the past experience we’re not able to provide a second opportunity in the near future.


I appreciate your time in applying and acknowledge your desire to work for *company name* . I trust that you can appreciate that brand and culture fit is essential for us to be satisfied with, even before skills and that you appreciate our honest feedback to you.


Wishing you all the best in your future job search.
Click to expand...


This is exceedingly, frustratingly disappointing. I only ever did one shift for them, 4 years ago, the most crappily managed load out I have ever done with 20 newbies, none of who had done load in, none of whom knew what we were meant to be doing. I didn't drink the free redbull supplied, got tired and steadily became less useful and this load out dragged on.

I don't recollect being offered anymore work, I really, Really doubt that I would have simply not turned up if I had accepted any.

And above all else, how can they assess my skills as a sound technician on the basis of one manual labour job?!

Obviously, there is no point in me pursuing work at this business anymore, even if I am good, someone in management is already biased against me. And this personality clash they talk of, I am strongly suspecting I am not wanted because of my inclination to lead when no leadership is present..

It sucks though because they do all the biggest gigs in town and I want to excel at this sound engineering thing and in order to do that, I need to be working on bigger productions than I have been. So, in a way, even though the "you don't really belong here" feeling is actually mutual, I would have sucked it up and worked hard for them in exchange for getting to work the big productions....

What's my next plan of attack? How to I progress beyond clubs and bars now? Not to mention how do I earn enough to live?! In freelance land, there's only work on Friday and Saturday and it is starting to take it's toll.

(Yes I suppose leaving this tiny city for a bigger, better one would be an idea, one I'm not heaps keen on, but definitely and option, and there are other smaller hire companies I can approach, and I will, but for now, just feeling dejected that I've been written off by this one before even getting a chance to try).
 
Re: A tad demoralising

That seems really considerate to provide such detailed feedback to you. I would just cut your losses with that company. Although based on your response "the most crappily managed load out I have ever done with 20 newbies, none of who had done load in, none of whom knew what we were meant to be doing. I didn't drink the free redbull supplied, got tired and steadily became less useful and this load out dragged on." I wouldn't be surprised if you rubbed someone the wrong way.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Lisa Lane,

Welcome to the world of misfit toys!!!! If its rock and roll that you are looking to do then yes fri and sat are the days you're gonna find work. However, I found that in my part of the world OUR skills come in very handy in the corporate freelance sector. Not only do I get my music fix on a pretty regular basis but the real money maker gigs are the SOS gigs where you hump half the gear and make 2x or 3x as much and it goes on all week. Granted your not mixing music but having some diversification isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have found myself in your scenario more than once in my career and through it all u just need to stay focused about your passion and not let that stuff bother you. Just do what you love and do it to the best of your ability and the money/opportunities will come.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

I know this is of little consolation, but in the world of show business rejection is something you must get used to!
 
Re: A tad demoralising

It will be an uphill battle to reverse a bad earlier impression... If your feet are not screwed to the ground and you can relocate that might be a good idea, and perhaps learn from this to be more sensitive to how others perceive you especially first impressions.

JR
 
Re: A tad demoralising

I was in a similar situation as you... freelance for a few years while holding down a steady job (it had health care). But I did make it to the job offer stage as an "AV Tech I" and the hourly wage was on par with saying "do you want fries with that".
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Hi Lisa,

When possible, I hire women.
Strong, take-charge women are great; I married one!

At this point it sounds like you have little to lose by speaking directly with somebody at this company.
Offer to buy this person lunch, in exchange for them listening to you.
Tell this person how you can make money for their company.
Make it clear that whatever happened or was said in the past, true or not, you wish to move past that and be a team player today.
At worst, you are out a bit of time and the cost of a lunch.
At best, you get a trial hire.

If you get hired, do as you are told, to the letter, well, quickly and quietly.
If you have problems, don't complain in the moment.
Submit your issues in writing and ask for clarification on how you are supposed to handle similar situations in the future.
With time your expertise will be recognized, or possibly somebody just won't like you and your best course will be to move on. Try to learn from whatever you get.

Good luck!

Thanks and good health, Weogo
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Lisa....

Competence is kind of far down the list for some outfits. I did a few jobs for an AV company and the clients raved about the service I provided, but it was so far beyond what their regular hands could do that I was not asked back as they couldn't charge more for the increased quality of service, nor could they maintain that level of service with people who had trouble pushing cases.

Go figure...
 
Re: A tad demoralising

As someone that isn't looking to get hired by a company, or even get hired for gigs, I still know how hard it is to shake off even a single bad gig or a single bad encounter. The word spreads quickly, and one bad gig or encounter far outweighs ten good ones.
My experience in an industry that isn't even remotely connected is that competence is of absolutely no value in a hiring process. It is all about people skills and how you sell yourself, and it doesn't matter if the job is a used car salesperson or a brain surgeon.
...and then there is Google, what do they find if they google you?
 
Re: A tad demoralising

1. Drink the free Redbull/Monster/Rockstar or even the black, lukewarm coffee if that is all that is available.
2. Nobody likes a complainer. It doesn't matter if the call is running long, or if a crew member(s) is slow, inept, a douche or all of the above. Just be the guy/gal that is there to smile and get the production moving. If you are dealing with a Touring production this goes double, your one day with the production is a drop in the bucket to them.

In my experience, crew chiefs eventually figure out who is lazy, who is a jerk, who is a liability (to themselves or others). Let management sort out the issues with your fellow crew members.
 
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Re: A tad demoralising

Dick Rees said:
Lisa....

Competence is kind of far down the list for some outfits. I did a few jobs for an AV company and the clients raved about the service I provided, but it was so far beyond what their regular hands could do that I was not asked back as they couldn't charge more for the increased quality of service, nor could they maintain that level of service with people who had trouble pushing cases.

Go figure...
Click to expand...

Been there. That's why I don't get overflow work from other vendors.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Per Søvik said:
As someone that isn't looking to get hired by a company, or even get hired for gigs, I still know how hard it is to shake off even a single bad gig or a single bad encounter. The word spreads quickly, and one bad gig or encounter far outweighs ten good ones.
My experience in an industry that isn't even remotely connected is that competence is of absolutely no value in a hiring process. It is all about people skills and how you sell yourself, and it doesn't matter if the job is a used car salesperson or a brain surgeon.
...and then there is Google, what do they find if they google you?
Click to expand...

Short story. Probably 15 years ago I had a band I had recorded and was scheduled to do a live show at a 600+ cap club. Miscommunication happened and they had hired another local 'studio' guy to mix. I was happy...95+* and no ac. The guy that did the show, blew out 6 of 8 sub speakers...kinda typical studio guy turning up the bass on channels...and for YEARS I was the guy that blew up the PA! I wasn't even at the show!! And I had mixed there dozens of times before with no mishaps. People's perspective on those kind of things is usually fuzzy for a whole bunch of reasons. I would try the lunch proposal. Might show you have virtual balls.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
So the biggest hire company in town advertised for crew, and I applied, and did not even make it to the group interview which was peopled mostly by complete beginners. Ok fair enough maybe they want to train up from scratch for these jobs.

Then they advertised again for experienced techs this time, 3 years minimum. Well, I've been doing this for 8, I should be a shoe-in.

Finally received a reply from HR who obliged me on my request to know why I was being rejected if rejection was the case.

This is what she had to say




This is exceedingly, frustratingly disappointing. I only ever did one shift for them, 4 years ago, the most crappily managed load out I have ever done with 20 newbies, none of who had done load in, none of whom knew what we were meant to be doing. I didn't drink the free redbull supplied, got tired and steadily became less useful and this load out dragged on.

I don't recollect being offered anymore work, I really, Really doubt that I would have simply not turned up if I had accepted any.

And above all else, how can they assess my skills as a sound technician on the basis of one manual labour job?!

Obviously, there is no point in me pursuing work at this business anymore, even if I am good, someone in management is already biased against me. And this personality clash they talk of, I am strongly suspecting I am not wanted because of my inclination to lead when no leadership is present..

It sucks though because they do all the biggest gigs in town and I want to excel at this sound engineering thing and in order to do that, I need to be working on bigger productions than I have been. So, in a way, even though the "you don't really belong here" feeling is actually mutual, I would have sucked it up and worked hard for them in exchange for getting to work the big productions....

What's my next plan of attack? How to I progress beyond clubs and bars now? Not to mention how do I earn enough to live?! In freelance land, there's only work on Friday and Saturday and it is starting to take it's toll.

(Yes I suppose leaving this tiny city for a bigger, better one would be an idea, one I'm not heaps keen on, but definitely and option, and there are other smaller hire companies I can approach, and I will, but for now, just feeling dejected that I've been written off by this one before even getting a chance to try).
Click to expand...

I remember the first time I applied at Clair Bros. I'd say Roy let you down easy.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Lisa Lane-Collins said:
This is exceedingly, frustratingly disappointing. I only ever did one shift for them, 4 years ago, the most crappily managed load out I have ever done with 20 newbies, none of who had done load in, none of whom knew what we were meant to be doing. I didn't drink the free redbull supplied, got tired and steadily became less useful and this load out dragged on.
Click to expand...

A rant like that says a lot. If they search for you on forums, there's a chance they will see it. I'd probably question hiring an employee if I saw them badmouthing their previous employers. It's NEVER a good thing to do that. Ever.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Lisa,

Sometimes working for the biggest PA company in the area isnt the path you were ment to follow. It certainly wasn't for me.

I applyed to all the big boys. Went for an interview at one and the guy interviewing me clearly too was busy doing other things to actually listern to what I had to say or interview me. Quite frankly I found it insulting. And I'm glad I didnt end up doing stuff for them.

Grow your career slowly. (Advice my business adviser gave me) building slowly lets your reputation stay strong as everybody knows you, As well as your abilitys.

Don't be disheartened seeing people doing 'better' than you. I find those that rush stumble and end up back where you are soon enough. I now have started working for other companies that are a better fit attitude wise.

As for the redbull..... If the crew is expected to drink redbull or do drugs to get the loadout done they are under crewed..... Is it really worth working for a company that want to harm their staff to get the job done?

Goodluck out there!

Kim x
 
Re: A tad demoralising

A couple of things come to mind as I read this....
One is you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

If I read your description of the gig one way it would appear that because, in your mind, the other workers weren't as good/experienced as you, you eventually faded and ultimately you weren't even as good as them. So when you had a real opportunity to stand out as the best of the batch, you didn't do it. You got frustrated and faded. So that wasn't good. And it played out like I would expect when taken from the perspective of the person writing the checks.

#2
And this personality clash they talk of, I am strongly suspecting I am not wanted because of my inclination to lead when no leadership is present..
Click to expand...

If you're hired to be a worker bee.... be a worker bee... Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever try to assume a leadership role even if you perceive there is a vacuum there. Obviously, this gig was your first with them so anything beyond doing what you were told, and possibly a limited asking for clarification if something was so confusing you knew you couldn't get it right without asking, should've been the end of your role. Lift and push. Pull and turn.

The crew chief or production manager does not need to be questioned or hear your ideas about how to do something differently during load in, the show, or load out. At best you're probably not considering everything he or she has already considered. It's a distraction. And at worst, in the midst of everything happening for one reason or another your suggestion might be OK'ed.... only for the PM/crew chief to figure out later why something has been done the same way for 256 shows, or planned for this particular strike, and now the truck pack is off for that one off radio gig in the morning.

Also, don't free lance on the gig and start doing things because you think they need done. When the crew chief/PM tells you to kill the dead cases THAT is when you do it. You don't open cases until you are told. You put the cases where they tell you and you leave them there until they tell you to move them. You don't dress cables until you're told to dress cables. You don't move the mic cable case closer to the AC case just because you think they should be together. Etc Etc Etc... You do what you're told and then make yourself available for the next project and wait. You don't randomly take off to help other people on their project even if you think they need help. Not unless the crew chief/PM puts you on that project.


So even if you feel there was no leadership there, or the leadership was lacking, you were most certainly not the leader. You were a worker bee that likely over-stepped your boundaries and then, by your own description, faded as the load out went on.

Maybe this is harsh but by the sounds of the letter and your description of the gig, it's also a very likely possibility of what went down and the mistakes you made.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Alan Hamilton said:
A couple of things come to mind as I read this....
One is you never get a second chance to make a first impression.

If I read your description of the gig one way it would appear that because, in your mind, the other workers weren't as good/experienced as you, you eventually faded and ultimately you weren't even as good as them. So when you had a real opportunity to stand out as the best of the batch, you didn't do it. You got frustrated and faded. So that wasn't good. And it played out like I would expect when taken from the perspective of the person writing the checks.

#2

If you're hired to be a worker bee.... be a worker bee... Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever try to assume a leadership role even if you perceive there is a vacuum there. Obviously, this gig was your first with them so anything beyond doing what you were told, and possibly a limited asking for clarification if something was so confusing you knew you couldn't get it right without asking, should've been the end of your role. Lift and push. Pull and turn.

The crew chief or production manager does not need to be questioned or hear your ideas about how to do something differently during load in, the show, or load out. At best you're probably not considering everything he or she has already considered. It's a distraction. And at worst, in the midst of everything happening for one reason or another your suggestion might be OK'ed.... only for the PM/crew chief to figure out later why something has been done the same way for 256 shows, or planned for this particular strike, and now the truck pack is off for that one off radio gig in the morning.

Also, don't free lance on the gig and start doing things because you think they need done. When the crew chief/PM tells you to kill the dead cases THAT is when you do it. You don't open cases until you are told. You put the cases where they tell you and you leave them there until they tell you to move them. You don't dress cables until you're told to dress cables. You don't move the mic cable case closer to the AC case just because you think they should be together. Etc Etc Etc... You do what you're told and then make yourself available for the next project and wait. You don't randomly take off to help other people on their project even if you think they need help. Not unless the crew chief/PM puts you on that project.


So even if you feel there was no leadership there, or the leadership was lacking, you were most certainly not the leader. You were a worker bee that likely over-stepped your boundaries and then, by your own description, faded as the load out went on.

Maybe this is harsh but by the sounds of the letter and your description of the gig, it's also a very likely possibility of what went down and the mistakes you made.
Click to expand...

You make it sound like Lisa was hired to be a "neck-down stagehand." Neck-down, because they aren't hired for whatever they can do, whatever abilities they may have, above the shoulders. Simple manual labor. If that was the capacity she was hired for (and it kind of sounds like it), then yes, Virginia, there is no Santa Claus and any attempt at providing additional leadership was probably seen as unwelcome, counter productive, or job-threatening to someone on the company crew.

I'm with the other reply that suggested that any firm that promotes the use of "energy drinks" as a means to the end is not a desirable firm to work for. Not allowing for rest periods is how stuff gets broken or forgotten, and fatigue is a major factor in bad decision-making that results in personal injuries. I take it in this case there was insufficient labor for the time allotted to complete the work or that the employer made a conscious decision to hire cheap & inexperienced labor who can be motivated by Red Bull.
 
Re: A tad demoralising

Thoroughly appreciating everyone's input and anecdotes :)

Have to practice being a worker bee, that skill doesn't come naturally, but Is important.

And so much this
As for the redbull..... If the crew is expected to drink redbull or do drugs to get the loadout done they are under crewed..... Is it really worth working for a company that want to harm their staff to get the job done?
Click to expand...

Doubling up my efforts to get some corporate coin in the new week.
 
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