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<blockquote data-quote="[waldo] Casey Williams" data-source="post: 27518" data-attributes="member: 376">Re: Anybody here work with...........I&#039;m going to chime in with an opposing opinion. The promoter may be sketchy or he may not. He needs a quote without having any talent booked yet, because he is still bidding on the talent and their agents are demanding top dollar. So he needs to make as accurate a guess (and even with perfect information, it&#039;s still just a guess) on audience draw and expenses. Of course, having riders in hand would help him make that guess, but he&#039;s already gotten attitude from the bands&#039; agents, or they laughed at his original offer and he really doesn&#039;t want to call them yet again and pester them for riders.It may seem odd, but often the rider is a big question mark at this stage. Sometimes that&#039;s an oversight, sometimes it just gets lost in the shuffle, and then sometimes it is 100% intentional on the part of the band&#039;s agent. We&#039;re all being rational players in the marketplace, and one sleazy but winning strategy I have been subjected to a number of times is for the agent to wait until there&#039;s a signed contract and then spring the backline or outrageous hospitality rider on&nbsp; the promoter/venue. Then the ball is in the promoter&#039;s court to fight to get some of those dollars back./rant. I&#039;ve spent time on both sides of the table in this relationship. The guy upstream from you (in your case, the promoter) always seems sleazy or stupid or both. Happily, most of the time he&#039;s just playing his cards in the most rational way possible.My unsolicited advice is to watch the most recent cell-phone live videos of the bands on youtube and give a generic quote based on what info you glean from that, and the expected size of audience. (The promoter ought to at least have that number!) I would be specific as to what the quote does NOT cover, so those items can be added in. Certainly folks here bid festivals from time to time without a comprehensive understanding of every requirement from the talent. That&#039;s the situation here.&nbsp;As mentioned above, getting riders in hand from the promoter also offers no guarantee that they are current and accurate.enjoy!waldo</blockquote>

[QUOTE="[waldo] Casey Williams, post: 27518, member: 376"] Re: Anybody here work with........... I'm going to chime in with an opposing opinion. The promoter may be sketchy or he may not. He needs a quote without having any talent booked yet, because he is still bidding on the talent and their agents are demanding top dollar. So he needs to make as accurate a guess (and even with perfect information, it's still just a guess) on audience draw and expenses. Of course, having riders in hand would help him make that guess, but he's already gotten attitude from the bands' agents, or they laughed at his original offer and he really doesn't want to call them yet again and pester them for riders. It may seem odd, but often the rider is a big question mark at this stage. Sometimes that's an oversight, sometimes it just gets lost in the shuffle, and then sometimes it is 100% intentional on the part of the band's agent. We're all being rational players in the marketplace, and one sleazy but winning strategy I have been subjected to a number of times is for the agent to wait until there's a signed contract and then spring the backline or outrageous hospitality rider on the promoter/venue. Then the ball is in the promoter's court to fight to get some of those dollars back. /rant. I've spent time on both sides of the table in this relationship. The guy upstream from you (in your case, the promoter) always seems sleazy or stupid or both. Happily, most of the time he's just playing his cards in the most rational way possible. My unsolicited advice is to watch the most recent cell-phone live videos of the bands on youtube and give a generic quote based on what info you glean from that, and the expected size of audience. (The promoter ought to at least have that number!) I would be specific as to what the quote does NOT cover, so those items can be added in. Certainly folks here bid festivals from time to time without a comprehensive understanding of every requirement from the talent. That's the situation here. As mentioned above, getting riders in hand from the promoter also offers no guarantee that they are current and accurate. enjoy! waldo [/QUOTE]

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