In the Showtime section of this months issue of FOH magazine , 5 out of 6 shows are using Avid Consoles. With all the choices in digital consoles now days,why are the Avid's so popular?
Avid consoles
- Thread starter Randy Gartner
- Start date
Re: Avid consoles
Because Digico is intimidating, A&H's iLive isn't as universal of a workflow, Yamaha is reliable but doesn't sound as good, integration with protools and the rest of the Avid product line which is so frequently used elsewhere in the music industry, Mackie and PreSonus don't count, Midas's price point is too high, and because the SC48 is simple, makes money and fits almost an infinite number of situations. Last but not least, Vegas Mode.
Or at least that's what I've heard and have been reading as of late. To be honest, I think it's that the Avid consoles "feel right" more universally to people. Even though I don't get the opportunity to work on most of the consoles out there, I do read through the manuals and try to get a feel for the console and how it operates. I feel like the menu systems work really quickly and really well. They are simple, and straight to the point. It's not the most flexible system in the world in some ways, but it's a rock solid system that doesn't seem to be questioned as much as other ones.
Because Digico is intimidating, A&H's iLive isn't as universal of a workflow, Yamaha is reliable but doesn't sound as good, integration with protools and the rest of the Avid product line which is so frequently used elsewhere in the music industry, Mackie and PreSonus don't count, Midas's price point is too high, and because the SC48 is simple, makes money and fits almost an infinite number of situations. Last but not least, Vegas Mode.
Or at least that's what I've heard and have been reading as of late. To be honest, I think it's that the Avid consoles "feel right" more universally to people. Even though I don't get the opportunity to work on most of the consoles out there, I do read through the manuals and try to get a feel for the console and how it operates. I feel like the menu systems work really quickly and really well. They are simple, and straight to the point. It's not the most flexible system in the world in some ways, but it's a rock solid system that doesn't seem to be questioned as much as other ones.
Re: Avid consoles
Max, I'm glad you added the "Or at least that's what I've heard and have been reading as of late".
I think anyone that says that about Digico desks are in one of two camps: 1) Those who are so entrenched in a Yamaha-esque style of WYSIWYG where next to nothing is configurable; or 2) They mixed on the old Digico desks that were (IMO) a little less user-friendly. The beautiful thing about the Digico desks is that nearly everything is configurable. Which is why with the last firmware release, they increased the channel counts of some desks. On anyone else's desk, that's a fixed value - need more channels, buy a bigger desk. But, I digress.
But back to the OP's question...
Avid is a known quantity. The Venue platform has been around for 10 years now, although I seem to remember it being shown at AES in fall of '04. Given that life span, they are now widely available on the used market. Sound companies with a lower budget (i.e. - buying used) can now afford them whereas before maybe only an M7 was in their scope. I am lumping in the SC48, although newer, since it's the same basic platform.
I don't have a copy of FOH handy, but in Pro Sound News, 8 of the top 10 tours have Digico on at least one console position, with 5 of those being 100% Digico. On the flip side, 5 of 10 have an Avid on at least one position, with only 1 being 100% Avid. Many people speculate that the Venue platform (SC48 included) is running close to EOL, but the masses have not seen what Avid may have up its sleeve for a replacement. Remember, the PM1D was mothballed a few years before its replacement hit the market. Will Avid do the same? I'll leave that for other folks to debate. But is it still a serviceable desk? Absolutely - but in some circles, so is the PM1D. YMMV.
Max, I'm glad you added the "Or at least that's what I've heard and have been reading as of late".
I think anyone that says that about Digico desks are in one of two camps: 1) Those who are so entrenched in a Yamaha-esque style of WYSIWYG where next to nothing is configurable; or 2) They mixed on the old Digico desks that were (IMO) a little less user-friendly. The beautiful thing about the Digico desks is that nearly everything is configurable. Which is why with the last firmware release, they increased the channel counts of some desks. On anyone else's desk, that's a fixed value - need more channels, buy a bigger desk. But, I digress.
But back to the OP's question...
Avid is a known quantity. The Venue platform has been around for 10 years now, although I seem to remember it being shown at AES in fall of '04. Given that life span, they are now widely available on the used market. Sound companies with a lower budget (i.e. - buying used) can now afford them whereas before maybe only an M7 was in their scope. I am lumping in the SC48, although newer, since it's the same basic platform.
I don't have a copy of FOH handy, but in Pro Sound News, 8 of the top 10 tours have Digico on at least one console position, with 5 of those being 100% Digico. On the flip side, 5 of 10 have an Avid on at least one position, with only 1 being 100% Avid. Many people speculate that the Venue platform (SC48 included) is running close to EOL, but the masses have not seen what Avid may have up its sleeve for a replacement. Remember, the PM1D was mothballed a few years before its replacement hit the market. Will Avid do the same? I'll leave that for other folks to debate. But is it still a serviceable desk? Absolutely - but in some circles, so is the PM1D. YMMV.
Re: Avid consoles
Yamaha digital is what the local production houses / corpy guys can afford/like. It's nobody's first pick, but hey, it'll get the gig done, and the engineer probably has a file for it.
Avid is popular because every desk is the same, they've been around and proven their reliability, the protools integration is awesome, and local PA houses buy them because they're acceptable by 99.9% of riders that come through. "Oh, and don't forget WAVESSSSSSSSS. Dude that C9 comp sounds SICK!"
Midas & Digico are the BMW & Lexus of the touring world. Not practical for local PA houses because they're "hard to use" and expensive*, but touring guys love them because they look cool** and sound awesome. Plus, like dude it's a Midas.
Soundcraft is popular in the UK. British guys love them. Why? I have no idea.
Every other console doesn't matter if you want to make money meeting riders. ....At least that's what I gathered before I bought my SC48.
*Pro 2 is comparable to SC48
**Chick Magnet
Evan
Yamaha digital is what the local production houses / corpy guys can afford/like. It's nobody's first pick, but hey, it'll get the gig done, and the engineer probably has a file for it.
Avid is popular because every desk is the same, they've been around and proven their reliability, the protools integration is awesome, and local PA houses buy them because they're acceptable by 99.9% of riders that come through. "Oh, and don't forget WAVESSSSSSSSS. Dude that C9 comp sounds SICK!"
Midas & Digico are the BMW & Lexus of the touring world. Not practical for local PA houses because they're "hard to use" and expensive*, but touring guys love them because they look cool** and sound awesome. Plus, like dude it's a Midas.
Soundcraft is popular in the UK. British guys love them. Why? I have no idea.
Every other console doesn't matter if you want to make money meeting riders. ....At least that's what I gathered before I bought my SC48.
*Pro 2 is comparable to SC48
**Chick Magnet
Evan
Re: Avid consoles
You can have someone who's never used one walk up to the desk and within 5 mins they'll know where everything is.
For this British guy at least, it's because they sound good and are easy to use
You can have someone who's never used one walk up to the desk and within 5 mins they'll know where everything is.
Re: Avid consoles
I think the reality is that most of us, with a little guidance from someone versed in the system, can walk up to just about any console and know where most of what we need is in a matter of minutes, simply because we know what we are looking for.
Often, I think it's the stuff we don't usually look for first thing that make or break a particular console for me. Little behaviors, like the order of menus, or what is or isn't exactly in arms reach. Some consoles, are designed so that you can split the console into your left hand and right hand, each working in their own space with an equal amount of engagement. The iLive (and several other consoles for that matter, including the X32) drives me nuts because all of the controls I want access to are on the left side of the console. Can I mix on it? Sure. Does it mess with my head? Most definitely.
Routing interfaces make a difference, too. Avid's is straightforward, but IMO A&H screwed it up. It's not that you can't patch the iLive or GLD, but that it's nowhere near as fast, nor easy to see. Rather than do it from number to number in the UI, A&H's is image based. I like patch sheets rather than pictures, so when I can just go down the line in Venue and patch patch patch - it goes faster. When I patch on iLive, I have to think through what I'm doing far more.
It's semantics, of course. The iLive is a perfectly fine console. It's not my favorite, but it works and sounds good (and has my favorite included ADT plugin I've used so far).
IIRC The 9:30 club downtown recently got an SD8 or SD10, Brian. Something tells me that a few years ago, the purchase decision would have been a Venue desk, but going forward you're probably right about EOL concerns.
I think the reality is that most of us, with a little guidance from someone versed in the system, can walk up to just about any console and know where most of what we need is in a matter of minutes, simply because we know what we are looking for.
Often, I think it's the stuff we don't usually look for first thing that make or break a particular console for me. Little behaviors, like the order of menus, or what is or isn't exactly in arms reach. Some consoles, are designed so that you can split the console into your left hand and right hand, each working in their own space with an equal amount of engagement. The iLive (and several other consoles for that matter, including the X32) drives me nuts because all of the controls I want access to are on the left side of the console. Can I mix on it? Sure. Does it mess with my head? Most definitely.
Routing interfaces make a difference, too. Avid's is straightforward, but IMO A&H screwed it up. It's not that you can't patch the iLive or GLD, but that it's nowhere near as fast, nor easy to see. Rather than do it from number to number in the UI, A&H's is image based. I like patch sheets rather than pictures, so when I can just go down the line in Venue and patch patch patch - it goes faster. When I patch on iLive, I have to think through what I'm doing far more.
It's semantics, of course. The iLive is a perfectly fine console. It's not my favorite, but it works and sounds good (and has my favorite included ADT plugin I've used so far).
IIRC The 9:30 club downtown recently got an SD8 or SD10, Brian. Something tells me that a few years ago, the purchase decision would have been a Venue desk, but going forward you're probably right about EOL concerns.
Re: Avid consoles
Richard, there are many of us stateside that share your opinion. Here in the US, the Vi's have failed to yet gain the traction some of the other brands enjoy. I'm not quite sure why that is. We own Vi's (as well as Avid). During advances I often have to do a little extra "selling" to get a BE to try a Vi console. The effort is always worth it. Pretty much without exception the BEs are big smiles in less than 5 minutes on the desk. Don't be put off by Evan's comments. He is, like all of us, entitled to his opinions. He just tends to present his personal opinions as though they were universal truths. I am convinced his intentions are good.
For this British guy at least, it's because they sound good and are easy to use
Richard, there are many of us stateside that share your opinion. Here in the US, the Vi's have failed to yet gain the traction some of the other brands enjoy. I'm not quite sure why that is. We own Vi's (as well as Avid). During advances I often have to do a little extra "selling" to get a BE to try a Vi console. The effort is always worth it. Pretty much without exception the BEs are big smiles in less than 5 minutes on the desk. Don't be put off by Evan's comments. He is, like all of us, entitled to his opinions. He just tends to present his personal opinions as though they were universal truths. I am convinced his intentions are good.
Re: Avid consoles
I think for the first 6 months I had my iLive I never even touched the physical control knobs; doing all my adjustments from the touchscreen and data knob. As with many higher end consoles, there are several ways to mix on them. You can even hook up a USB mouse and keyboard and do it that way.
One of the benefits of the iLive is it's flexibility. Inputs to channels can be kept 1 to 1, but channels faders can easily and quickly (singly or in blocks) mapped to anywhere on the surface.
Not trying to sound like an iLive fanboy or hijack the thread here, but after using the board for a year now I still can't figure out why they haven't caught on more.
-Mark
I think for the first 6 months I had my iLive I never even touched the physical control knobs; doing all my adjustments from the touchscreen and data knob. As with many higher end consoles, there are several ways to mix on them. You can even hook up a USB mouse and keyboard and do it that way.
One of the benefits of the iLive is it's flexibility. Inputs to channels can be kept 1 to 1, but channels faders can easily and quickly (singly or in blocks) mapped to anywhere on the surface.
Not trying to sound like an iLive fanboy or hijack the thread here, but after using the board for a year now I still can't figure out why they haven't caught on more.
-Mark
Re: Avid consoles
Because it's certainly not the first console to be customizable in that way. Many desks have customizable fader layers and banks - though granted none of them are quite as flexible as the iLive and GLD. While I can think of dozens of uses for this kind of thing, the only place I think it really makes sense over time is in a theatrical environment. In this environment, the other advantage of the iLive is the excess of physical faders on some models and the at console input option cards.
Otherwise, I think that particular feature gets too much merit. It's cool, and it's saved me on musicals where I could create different fader layouts for each number when I didn't have enough faders to just have had straight layers on the bank (I was working with the R72). Otherwise, I've never gotten to use it because there were more important mixing considerations going on.
I don't think you're sounding like a fanboy. It's always good to hear other people's opinions on the consoles they are using - even and especially if I don't agree. I've never had a mouse nor keyboard with the iLive, but that certainly would change the workflow for me. I'm actually kind of angry that I didn't plug my portable ones in, rather than trusting that the supplier knew the console well enough to know the mouse wasn't an option - OOPS.
Because it's certainly not the first console to be customizable in that way. Many desks have customizable fader layers and banks - though granted none of them are quite as flexible as the iLive and GLD. While I can think of dozens of uses for this kind of thing, the only place I think it really makes sense over time is in a theatrical environment. In this environment, the other advantage of the iLive is the excess of physical faders on some models and the at console input option cards.
Otherwise, I think that particular feature gets too much merit. It's cool, and it's saved me on musicals where I could create different fader layouts for each number when I didn't have enough faders to just have had straight layers on the bank (I was working with the R72). Otherwise, I've never gotten to use it because there were more important mixing considerations going on.
I don't think you're sounding like a fanboy. It's always good to hear other people's opinions on the consoles they are using - even and especially if I don't agree. I've never had a mouse nor keyboard with the iLive, but that certainly would change the workflow for me. I'm actually kind of angry that I didn't plug my portable ones in, rather than trusting that the supplier knew the console well enough to know the mouse wasn't an option - OOPS.
Re: Avid consoles
I miss owning an SC48. The venue desks IMHO are the most fun digital desks to mix on. For some reason that's hard to quantify it just makes me think more artistically about mixing and less about the technical stuff. I think a lot of that has to do with the multitude of plugins and "colors" available with things like Phoenix, or some of the "character" compressors etc. That's just my experience, FWIW. I don't have experience outside of demos on Digico with Waves, so that may be more comparable.
I miss owning an SC48. The venue desks IMHO are the most fun digital desks to mix on. For some reason that's hard to quantify it just makes me think more artistically about mixing and less about the technical stuff. I think a lot of that has to do with the multitude of plugins and "colors" available with things like Phoenix, or some of the "character" compressors etc. That's just my experience, FWIW. I don't have experience outside of demos on Digico with Waves, so that may be more comparable.