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The Basement
Batteries May Become Obsolete
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<blockquote data-quote="Per Søvik" data-source="post: 82174" data-attributes="member: 1285"><p>Re: Batteries May Become Obsolete</p><p></p><p>Yes, apparently it does everything and it does it better :razz:</p><p></p><p> Yes, fossil fuel prices have not increased in real terms, but in Europe the electricity market has increasingly become a sellers market as the distribution grid has grown, and prices are to an increasing degree become inflated due to bidding (wars) going on at the energy exchange. Distributors have to meet their supply contracts, and the cost of securing the supply is passed on to the customers. </p><p>Long term contracts for low price electricity that energy hungry industries like the aluminium industry are dependant on are now impossible to come by in mainland Europe, and the struggling economies of eastern Europe are having trouble securing the electricity to keep the population from freezing in the winter.</p><p>In North America, the light metal industries, ie. the aluminium smelters and the manganese electrolyzers have shut down mainly because of energy cost, and the inability to compete with cheap energy in South America and China.</p><p>The great irony for the workers in these industries is that in order to get electricity to cook their dinner they have to outbid their employers, ensuring that they end up without a job and thus are unable to buy the dinner and the electricity to heat it.</p><p>While traditionally, these industries established themselves in areas where local energy production ensured abundant and cheap energy, the improvements in distribution have wiped out the local advantages.</p><p>There is light in the end of the tunnel though, in China the great abundance of cheap electricity have turned into a shortage as the chinese households have started using electricity, and the very recent abundance of virtually free gas for electricity production in the middle east have evaporated as the well owners have come to realize the value of the gas they used to burn off. Not only have the well owners decided to get a fair price, but the rapid growth of industries utilizing the gas has caused real competition for the gas resources. Add to that the fact that the supply of vast quantities of electricity from the new power plants have led to an explosive growth in domestic electricity use as the people of the area are now air-conditioning absolutely everything from their houses, shops and mosques to the football stadiums and the indoor ski resorts. While the increase in prices far away does the Europeans and North Americans no good in the very short term, it is likely to put our industries on a more equal footing in the longer term if we don't squander the opportunity.</p><p>Yes, mature and reliable technology for efficient energy storage <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />~<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile :-)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />~:smile:</p><p></p><p> </p><p>Actually, mechanics dictate that that wouldn't work as there is no way you can siphon water more than about 8 m above the surface of the lower reservoir before the pressure at the high point gets so low that the water starts boiling and subsequently freeze the pipe. The siphoning, even if it worked would also rob the 1000 m drop pipe of some pressure and energy at the turbine, allthough this could be managed. However, the project has gone virtually unnoticed despite being one of the largest scale energy storage projects ever undertaken.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Per Søvik, post: 82174, member: 1285"] Re: Batteries May Become Obsolete Yes, apparently it does everything and it does it better :razz: Yes, fossil fuel prices have not increased in real terms, but in Europe the electricity market has increasingly become a sellers market as the distribution grid has grown, and prices are to an increasing degree become inflated due to bidding (wars) going on at the energy exchange. Distributors have to meet their supply contracts, and the cost of securing the supply is passed on to the customers. Long term contracts for low price electricity that energy hungry industries like the aluminium industry are dependant on are now impossible to come by in mainland Europe, and the struggling economies of eastern Europe are having trouble securing the electricity to keep the population from freezing in the winter. In North America, the light metal industries, ie. the aluminium smelters and the manganese electrolyzers have shut down mainly because of energy cost, and the inability to compete with cheap energy in South America and China. The great irony for the workers in these industries is that in order to get electricity to cook their dinner they have to outbid their employers, ensuring that they end up without a job and thus are unable to buy the dinner and the electricity to heat it. While traditionally, these industries established themselves in areas where local energy production ensured abundant and cheap energy, the improvements in distribution have wiped out the local advantages. There is light in the end of the tunnel though, in China the great abundance of cheap electricity have turned into a shortage as the chinese households have started using electricity, and the very recent abundance of virtually free gas for electricity production in the middle east have evaporated as the well owners have come to realize the value of the gas they used to burn off. Not only have the well owners decided to get a fair price, but the rapid growth of industries utilizing the gas has caused real competition for the gas resources. Add to that the fact that the supply of vast quantities of electricity from the new power plants have led to an explosive growth in domestic electricity use as the people of the area are now air-conditioning absolutely everything from their houses, shops and mosques to the football stadiums and the indoor ski resorts. While the increase in prices far away does the Europeans and North Americans no good in the very short term, it is likely to put our industries on a more equal footing in the longer term if we don't squander the opportunity. Yes, mature and reliable technology for efficient energy storage :)~:-)~:smile: Actually, mechanics dictate that that wouldn't work as there is no way you can siphon water more than about 8 m above the surface of the lower reservoir before the pressure at the high point gets so low that the water starts boiling and subsequently freeze the pipe. The siphoning, even if it worked would also rob the 1000 m drop pipe of some pressure and energy at the turbine, allthough this could be managed. However, the project has gone virtually unnoticed despite being one of the largest scale energy storage projects ever undertaken. [/QUOTE]
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