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The Basement
Batteries May Become Obsolete
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<blockquote data-quote="John Roberts" data-source="post: 82215" data-attributes="member: 126"><p>Re: Batteries May Become Obsolete</p><p></p><p></p><p>While I pay far closer attention US trends than Euro zone, there is a direct cost consequence from mandating renewable energy. Germany's recent decision to abandon nuclear energy (after Japan's experience made it unpopular) is adding more straws to the camels back. I read recently that Germany is subsidizing electricity use for industry (to protect jobs) shifting even more cost burden onto consumers/taxpayers. </p><p></p><p>In the US California is the most European-like, and they are already starting to worry about future electricity shortages as they have progressively legislated increasing percentages of their electricity supply to renewable sources. If the wind don't blow and/or the sun don't shine, the air conditioner may not work all that well either. </p><p></p><p>The recent surfeit of natural gas has started attracting energy dependent industries like metal smelting back to the US. Fertilizer and Chemical industries are also benefitting from cheap NG. Right now we have so much NG, with inadequate pipeline infrastructure to move it where we need it, that we are still flaring off a lot of it. Simultaneously the crony capitalists who benefit from cheap energy are setting up to block exporting NG (actually LNG) where it could realize the world market price which is much higher than domestic prices currently. </p><p></p><p>If/when we ever perfect loss-less electrical distribution, we can make it wherever the energy is, and ship it wherever needed. </p><p></p><p>A little strange sounding in light of recent trends, they just finished building a gasified coal power plant near me. After they recapture the building cost, my rate goes down almost 3%. Building a coal plant in 2013 sounds a little bizarre but they argue, the low price of NG is a short term aberration and it will rise to world market prices as delivery infrastructure is built out. (It helps that we have a huge coal seam nearby, so this is keeping the cost and related jobs local). </p><p></p><p>Yup, fertilizer, chemical, and even aluminum have co-located to the middle east, but this is almost a mature trend that passed. In free markets capital pursues return, and it was a good use of capital to take advantage of relatively cheap energy. The middle east used to flare off NG too, may still, but the dynamic is always changing and modern technology is finding more energy in more places than the experts ever predicted.</p><p></p><p>Air-conditioned ski slopes is just showing off, but more power to them (literally). They realize that their energy dominance has peaked, but the demand from the growing wealth in the third world is giving them a reprieve, for now. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll take your word for that, pumping it up 100m seems simple enough and practical as you get most of that energy back. </p><p></p><p>If you think about it dams and high elevation reservoirs are variants on solar energy extraction as sunlight did the original work. The sun heats up and transports the water up into the atmosphere where it precipitates out and is captured at higher elevation reservoirs. Then again sunlight drove the photo-synthesis that arguably captured the original energy for fossil fuels. While there are some alternate theories kicking around about alternate pathways for fossil fuel creation (high pressure deep underground) that are ongoing. </p><p></p><p>JR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="John Roberts, post: 82215, member: 126"] Re: Batteries May Become Obsolete While I pay far closer attention US trends than Euro zone, there is a direct cost consequence from mandating renewable energy. Germany's recent decision to abandon nuclear energy (after Japan's experience made it unpopular) is adding more straws to the camels back. I read recently that Germany is subsidizing electricity use for industry (to protect jobs) shifting even more cost burden onto consumers/taxpayers. In the US California is the most European-like, and they are already starting to worry about future electricity shortages as they have progressively legislated increasing percentages of their electricity supply to renewable sources. If the wind don't blow and/or the sun don't shine, the air conditioner may not work all that well either. The recent surfeit of natural gas has started attracting energy dependent industries like metal smelting back to the US. Fertilizer and Chemical industries are also benefitting from cheap NG. Right now we have so much NG, with inadequate pipeline infrastructure to move it where we need it, that we are still flaring off a lot of it. Simultaneously the crony capitalists who benefit from cheap energy are setting up to block exporting NG (actually LNG) where it could realize the world market price which is much higher than domestic prices currently. If/when we ever perfect loss-less electrical distribution, we can make it wherever the energy is, and ship it wherever needed. A little strange sounding in light of recent trends, they just finished building a gasified coal power plant near me. After they recapture the building cost, my rate goes down almost 3%. Building a coal plant in 2013 sounds a little bizarre but they argue, the low price of NG is a short term aberration and it will rise to world market prices as delivery infrastructure is built out. (It helps that we have a huge coal seam nearby, so this is keeping the cost and related jobs local). Yup, fertilizer, chemical, and even aluminum have co-located to the middle east, but this is almost a mature trend that passed. In free markets capital pursues return, and it was a good use of capital to take advantage of relatively cheap energy. The middle east used to flare off NG too, may still, but the dynamic is always changing and modern technology is finding more energy in more places than the experts ever predicted. Air-conditioned ski slopes is just showing off, but more power to them (literally). They realize that their energy dominance has peaked, but the demand from the growing wealth in the third world is giving them a reprieve, for now. I'll take your word for that, pumping it up 100m seems simple enough and practical as you get most of that energy back. If you think about it dams and high elevation reservoirs are variants on solar energy extraction as sunlight did the original work. The sun heats up and transports the water up into the atmosphere where it precipitates out and is captured at higher elevation reservoirs. Then again sunlight drove the photo-synthesis that arguably captured the original energy for fossil fuels. While there are some alternate theories kicking around about alternate pathways for fossil fuel creation (high pressure deep underground) that are ongoing. JR [/QUOTE]
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